Glad you posted the link to the IRC report on Gitmo and torture as well as recommended the special on Gitmo. I watched it and found it to be a good basis for those who know very little but it actually glosses over so much of what has and continues to happen there and at the other black sites. Considering the censorship NGEO was required to go through and the limitations placed upon them, they got some of the information out.If one wants a more in depth study, please go to UC Davis' testimonials project with interviews and testimonies of guards, lawyers, detainees, etc.Also Winter Soldier has had a number of guards report on Gitmo.A good website to visit is cageprisoners.com....comprised of former detainees, it is based in England and has lots of good material....If that doesn't get your blood boiling and your rage towards the cabal who did this in OUR name, I don't know what will.And if your sick of it and want to DO something? JOIN AIUSA - WE are working to meet with members of Congress to push them for appointment of a special prosecutor or to do a thorough investigation into the torture and those who perpetratated it.GW Bush and Dick Cheney have both stated they approved the actions. Rumsfeld wrote the memo telling the military to use the tactics and the pentagon and CIA carry (not carried but carry...it is STILL going on) it out. Remember, Obama refused to address the issue of Bagram and the other Black Sites (to include 2 US Navy ships being used as Black Sites and detention...floating around in international waters). They are being left alone. Bagram is considered the "training center" for torture.You may have voted for Obama, as I did, but we cannot allow this administration to sweep this under the rug and that IS what is happening. WE MUST hold them accountable. If we do not....WE are complicit and as guilty of the action as anyone since we ALLOWED it to go by without so much as a slap on the wrist.The links discussed:Cage Prisonershttp://cageprisoners.com/UC Davis Guantanamo Testimonials projecthttp://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/the-guantanamo-testimonials-projectAmnesty International USAhttp://www.amnestyusa.org/war-on-terror/torture/page.do?id=1351081
Cosmic::thank you for this....and yes, like you I voted for and support Obama, BUT....I support an Honest and Just Government run by Justice and Laws and if the JD is damaged and the laws are damaged and there has been Torture etc done in our names- then I will fight on, it is too important to who we are as a people.....and that includes Bagram and other black sites and that includes other issues from detention to illegal spying....it is all connected...I will post other links that you gave thank you I appreciate that...I have blogged about the US Davis project in the past- but you are right- I should add that link to this post.thank you again.
I haven't watched the Gitmo special yet.. I recorded it last night.. going to watch it in a bit. I didn't figure they would show much.. but would maybe tell a little. Anything is better than nothing.. I still think he is just biding his time until the people get so angry they force him to do something.. with the rethugs so polarized right now, if he tried to push anything it would just tear this country apart.. look how they are attacking him now.. can you imagine what would happen if he went after Bush & Cheney, and some of the other "heroes" of the war, because if he goes after the ones who did this, not just the ones who ordered it, it will involve a lot of people.. what will it do.. look how they are going after him now.. what would happen then.. yes I want them punished.. but are we ready to sacrifice our country, our president and a lot of other things to do it?? That's what we have to think about.
I think the pressure from International entities and countries will start to mount and grow and seeth...I think if he lets his heavy hitters organize and mount the investigation after the evidence all comes forward that will help...and also help with the tension over this issue- I think the media is good at lathering up over stupid thing....but everywhere he went the Gitmo issue was huge...actually unifying...I think the pressure is already mounting Cheney and Bush really can't travel- Cheney is already hoarding ( hiding) his documents...gonzo is hiding nad unemployed...etc..I think also alot of thi year will be WHO says what and comes forward- and what truthes fall forward....and then we have the JD which must totally be rebuilt and salvaged...no investigation could go forward until there was a REAL JD in place...I am for patience on this...I will wait years ( already have)....but I do expect him to follow through...and I think he will- but there are many fences to mend- Internationally and at home and even witin the Military to make that happen...( I hope that makes sense)...
It does.. and I am like you, I think we just have to be patient.. even though patience has never been one of my virtues..lol Like I said Sen. Leahy couldn't get even 1 republican to support him and has basically dropped his commission but Conyers is wanting to go forward. So, one way or the other it will I think get done... but it has to start in congress and with more support of the people behind it. Even though polls say there is 60 some % of the people behind it no one will stand up for it. That's the problem it is the ones who say yes, but hide when they do it...
yeah...you are right....( I hate being patient...but I think that while it unfolds there will be more that we learn...)
Unfortunately, IT is too late to "wait". There will NEVER be a "time" when it will be OK to go after these criminals. The longer the wait, the less likely anything will happen. People have short, very short memories and tend to excuse things. That is what is happening now and what has happened for 50 years; 60 years....and as long as Cheney is running around making it a "policy" issue (which is exactly WHY he is playing the game as a gadfly) he is going to make it so; as long as Rove has a forum; as long as Kristol has a forum; as long as Murdoch continues to front the money; as long as Wolfowitz, Khalilizad, Bolton, Blakeman, and the rest are continuing their cabal and building their propaganda machine again, we are doomed to be ripped apart... The Democrats lack the balls to do what is needed and these criminals (and there is no doubt they are) will be back to do it again. In 10 years, 20 years, they will be back and they will do this again; if we do NOT take them down NOW, it WILL be worse...So you can kiss your country good bye right now. The longer these demons are out on the loose, the more games they win now, kiss your country good-bye because they are ripping it apart. We are watching it happen and excusing it every bit of the way....What the neo-conservatives are doing and I see they have wormed their way into this discussion already, is what they have always done. Divide and conquer, dehumanizing and reducing the game of smoke and mirrors into a catty, childish mud fight –You are doing it hear with the referencing of “repugs” and their “libtards” and the other cutesy bratty name calling…They win when you do that and they push the knife in ever deeper and split us apart ever further so stop and watch yourself. The major game is pick someone to be the president and become advisor, Secretary of State, VP, some cabinet post...Fill the entire White House and important embassy posts with members of their group and run the country. Bush was a puppet. Sure he moved on his own but didn't do a thing that had not been preconceived.You may not want to believe the truth...it is so conspiratorial but that is exactly what it is. Conspiratorial.Look at the names...Look at the history of the 20th century and look at the names.Understand Neo-Conservatism - READ Leo Strauss and look at his students.So let’s see, what are you waiting for…Afraid the “country will be torn apart”. The country IS torn apart and the only way to heal is to remove the infection that insidiously spreads always under the surface until it replicates to a point of an eruption on the top, a form of chancre…Like syphilis, always eating away underneath and only showing itself occasionally but that chancre is only a symptom of the infection within that will kill, eating away at the very moral fiber and intelligence of the country to leave a mindless, soulless lump.I will no longer wait – Obama does something or claim his soul to the devil himself for he will BE the problem.THIS cabal MUST be finally brought to justice; cut out this disease. THIS IS the only thing that can be done and to “wait” is to allow the cancer to grow ever stronger and ever more malicious….John Dean recognized it under Nixon….Some of us saw it never get treated…..We must stop it from growing again or start the funeral prep…we as a nation are dead.
Cosmic::most of the folks that have commented and are here , or readers do support trials and prosecution ( scroll to the side there are atleast three buttons that link to that work)....You don't have to be frustated with most the people here- most have been and are working to get trials- and won't let up. The real problem is about we must have an INTACT functioning Honest JD or all of the evidence will vanish or be squashed .....under Bush the JD was so damaged and non functional - they litterally got away with murder....( Look how many JD investigations we saw bungled the last 8 years- Plamegate to the fired 9 US Attorneys etc...)Most of the folks here also fought the neocons the past 8 years and yes, also I have studied John Dean and Watergate...alot...I believe that Crimes must always be prosecuted that break out country...always...When I say "Patience"- I mean I can wait Patiently for the Trials to be Done Right and Prosecuted and people to go to prison....Nuremburg took time too.
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