Wednesday, February 27, 2008


So it is the morning after the Debate here in Cleveland, and Obama did a good job, he was Presidential. It was an odd debate, and to be honest 20 Debates is just too many and I think most of us are tired of the Debates and also of the Debate Process. It is so odd because if Obama had lost 11 in a row he would be told to gracefully concede for the Good of the Party and the Election.Yet the Media is still rooting for Hillary, they keep asking HOW can She Save IT, yet they are not acknowledging that Obama has run an AMAZING race.

I have to say that Hillary has not really spent much time in downtown Cleveland, and neither has Bill, there have been no Big Hill Rallies in Downtown Cleveland. She has held most of her events at Private Highschools here on the outskirts. I mention this because she spoke at the Debate at all the People that she has talked to , yet the truth is she has not taken time to talk to people in Downtown Cleveland.She has had very controlled visits to Plants in Youngstown and Toledo, but again very controlled.CSU was closed for the Event last night, and students could only attend if they won a ticket or volunteered.So access to her has been limited and controlled. The Obama events have been open to all and huge, because people are not turned away, he filled Halls in Dayton, Toledo, and Cinncinatti, he has made every effort to reach as many as possible.

Obama was very calm and collected and poised, and gracefully handled Hillary's attacks and disgruntlement. Obama I think consistantly shows that he is thoughtful and careful with his answers. He was Presidential. He has drawn huge crowds throughtout Ohio, throughout the State, people are listening to him and learning WHO he is. Obama also has a well organized Campaign here that is reaching millions and is focused on the Issues here. He is trying to Unite the Dems, but also unite us as People that have suffered for 7 years.Tuesday will show us WHO is really meant to be Our President.MSNBC has a phone text poll, as to WHO won the Debate. 97,000 people have voted in the MSNBC Poll, 70% for Obama and 22% for Hillary.
We had about a foot of snow last night and it is 15 degrees here with winds. And since it is bitter cold and the roads are worthless. I will be working the phone banks the next few days, but for today I am giving my hip a break.....and watching films with 6-6 and making alot of hot coco. Be safe out there......Namaste.

[Click the title + Kenny Loggins "Conviction of the Heart"]


Sewmouse said...

Thank you for watching and liveblogging the debate for those of us who couldn't/didn't.

enigma4ever said...

no problem...I just view it as documenting part of the process...and in a way....History....( but I think 20 debates is a little much....)

Christopher said...

20 is too many. We have lives and only so much time. It's alot for the candidates too.

After the nomination, we will have more debates. What more do we need to hear?

an average patriot said...

It's funny you point that out about the media. She said the media is giving Obama a buy and always asking her the question. She was whining! She said something about Saturday night live and he should bring a pillow. She is a major turn off and her own worse enemy! Curl up with that hot chocolate,rest the hip, and relax!

Fran said...

Thanks for the update. People out in public airwave land have only seen ONE debate.
ONE! Frankly I think a part of the revamp is all debates should be held on public airwaves. the pay for view- cable/dish thing is an arrogant assumption everyone has $ to pay for TV viewing. Also.... from what I hear some networs conduct the debates in such a poor manner, it mocks the notion they are even holding a debate- maybe we should call them *a Festival of soundbites*???

Anyway, while Hill pisses & moans about Obama getting better treatment (aka the SNL opening spoof)... let's not forget the audience plant of the "diamonds or pearls" question & that others have come forward to say they are given specific questions to ask, then pretned they were chosen randomly to ask questions.

Hope you are on mend & it sounds nasty in Ohio-- you get the lake effect snow & weather. Yuck!

My f-i-l Grandpa slipped on some parking lot ice in Ohio yesterday & broke his shoulder.

Take care of yourself & stay warm

betmo said...

the folks in power want us to continue to be nasty fighting each other OVER A PRIMARY!!!!!! there is no reason for supporters in both camps to be fighting each other when we have a common enemy- romney is thinking of coming back into the race- and then there's what's left of mccain. for every buckley that goes away- there are a hundred roves and cheneys- that's who we should be focused on. so- that's why hillary is still in. she wants this so bad she can taste it- and let's face it- the clinton's are a power couple with lots of connections. no one is going to ask her to step gracefully aside- except maybe bill.

Gryphen said...

I have been asked to deliver a message to Hillary from the American people.

"Get out of the race! You are finished, done, kaput, if you check your back you will see that there is a fork in it! You are embarrassing yourself, draining the energy of the Democrats, and keeping our next President from focusing on dealing with John McCain."

I hope I said that right.

Larry said...

Ditto on Betmo's comment.

Christopher said...

I love this!

"The Democratic field looks like America, while the all-white male Republican field looks like the 1950s and talks like the 1850s." - Howard Dean, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee

Mister Grimm said...

I haven't bothered posting here in a while because to be honest, the Oba-mania here is pretty off-putting.

The frothing at the mouth hate toward HRC all the while using extremes of the same tactics (or antics) that many Obama followers claim to despise Hillary Clinton for is ... hypocritical at best.

The idea that HRC should just drop out of the race at this point is lunacy. True, her chances are slimming, but the race is still close. That she should give up because Obama has won in states that will go to the GOP nominee in the general election is simply not realistic.

And just as Obama is riding a new swell of popularity these past two months, popularity ebbs and floes like mercury -- ask any one-time pop star.

What Obama's camp and followers may be failing to see is that Obama cannot win in November if he and they thoroughly turn off Clinton supporters.

You might also be interested in this article:

In the end, if Obama is elected, I really do hope his supporters will prove to have been right, that Obama is the candidate that you think he is. I understand the thirst for hope built up after 7 years of Bush, but hope should not look and taste like Kool-Aid.

enigma4ever said...


I repeat what I have said ALL along- if Obama had lost 11 contests in a Row, By a HUGE margin , I know the DNC would have asked him to step aside....

I also have ONE thing to say- that there is NOT Obama-mania here- there is a family and a Community of People Supporting a Great Candidate, Someone that is Changing History. There is NO Koolaid. ( To be honest Mr.Grimm, you are not a regular here- so I really am not heartbroken at your sentiments. I have taken enough negative Crap and Shunning from Hill supporters to know I am immune from this kind of Comment.)

Comparing a Constitutional Civil Rights Lawyer to a "pop star" sounds peevish and best....and pathetic..rather like a HIllary supporter. Always amazes me that Bill Clinton was allowed to campaign on a platform of HOPE in the 1990's, but NOW we are not allowed to have Hope, that seems very Republican and smallminded.

I as a Woman am dissappointed and disgusted by Hillary and how she has conducted herself as a woman and as a Candidate, throughout this campaign ( Evidence her behavior and antics of the past week). She lacks stability and manners.

Oh, and as an American that is MY right to feel that way...So MrGrimm please go over to Hillaryland and enjoy yourself.....there is PLENTY of KOOLAID there....

But My Friends and Family and my Son NEED Hope and Someone that believes in Unity more than their Ego and Dividing the Country.

thanks for the Dean Comment....excellent.

Hey there....yes Betmo's comment was good..

thank you for the comment- you said it well..thank you..

I think that Romney is going to hold off until 2012, and he has blown 62 million....I am not worried about him- the Primary Numbers have been almost double the Repug Numbers- it is important that the
DEMS keep up their enthusiasm....and I hate to say this but Hillary is the ONE thing that has made this Campaign SO Devisive....The MOCKERY Moment last weekend, the tears, the SHAME moment-on and on...and here in Ohio how she has ignored ANY areas that are rich in a Black population- it makes her looks fairly entitled ( at best).....

enigma4ever said...

thanks ...and I am sorry that the Debates have not been on regular TV..that is not right....they should have been...I think some have been livestreamed on the internet- but that is not good enough- you are right people are being cut off from information.

I agree I am still embarrassed by her....I was hoping for so much better...

I agree that 20 is too many..I wanted to hear Real solutions and also HOW we will leave Iraq etc..and economic solutions and HOW we will close Gitmo etc...and end the Patriot Act....etc etc....

Gryphen said...

Mister Grimm I am not going to get upset at your remarks though they did feel a little insulting. (Lunacy huh?)

Hillary has good points but she is not the right choice here. She will serve her country well as the Senator from New York. But we need a true LEADER, not the wife of a true leader. I mean let's face it without Bill NOBODY would even consider voting for Hillary. And she would never have been elected as a senator either.

Obama is not riding anybody else's coattails he has climbed to the top of his own volition.

He is a man of vision who has gone from a relative unknown to the the most likely President in 2008, how can you not be impressed with that?

And we also hope that our faith does not prove to be misplaced. Every time we cast our vote for a new President we are rolling the dice. But to play it safe and re-elect Bill Clinton (pulling Hillary's strings from behind the curtain)is not going to be enough to make the kind of changes that we need to get the country unified after George Bush has spent the last eight years tearing it apart along political, and racial lines.

Barack CAN do that. And I believe Barack WILL do that.

Mister Grimm said...

"Oh, and as an American that is MY right to feel that way...So MrGrimm please go over to Hillaryland and enjoy yourself.....there is PLENTY of KOOLAID there....

But My Friends and Family and my Son NEED Hope and Someone that believes in Unity more than their Ego and Dividing the Country."

I guess you don't see the irony in needing Unity more than... Dividing the Country, and then asking me to go over to Hillaryland? If you give me a minute -- and I'll try to refrain from disparaging your candidate of choice -- I'll try to instead consider your remark below, "I hope we ALL keep talking."

I respectfully disagree about your opinion that the DNC would have asked Obama to step aside. Here's why: the primaries and conventions have a long history of changing significance. Eleven states that generally aren't all that important to the DNC isn't going to change that. And to date, the number of delegates that have actually been won remains close. Despite what George W Bush thought in 2004, 52% is NOT a mandate.

Also, there is strong evidence that this contest is actually benefiting the Democrats, in part by allowing the outlier states that normally don't get much of a voice to feel actively involved in the election process. Also, by having both Clinton and Obama in the race, the GOP doesn't have clear target to campaign against. Further, because the contest remains weekly, even daily, fodder for the the news media, the Dems get to keep their message in the forefront of the news cycle. Since McCain is not running directly against any one candidate and THAT election isn't until November, McCain's campaigning efforts become slightly marginalized.

(to Gryphen -- this is why I stated it was lunacy to expect HRC to drop out before Texas and Ohio.)

True, I am a Hillary supporter but only marginally so. Frankly, HRC and Obama have very similar voting records and proposals and platforms. I'm not impressed by either's legal background -- DC is full of lawyers. I've lived with a lawyer for 18 years and worked with them even longer. I don't bash lawyers but I don't put them on pedestals either. Both Obama and Hillary have had their rock star moments and politicians have historically been pop stars longer than, well, pop stars.

So, sincerely I don't mind people supporting Obama at all. But I think the hateful rhetoric is wrong and only hurts the cause against the GOP. Too many people are burning effigies on or under bridges. We don't need to do the GOP's work for them and we certainly don't need to sink to their level using similar trash talk. Lowering the dialogue only lowers us.

And as I've said before, there really isn't much difference in either candidate's policies. We each might prefer a different pop star here, but they are singing the same songs. And yet too many on either side say that if their candidate (Obama or HRC) doesn't win the primary, they will either vote for McCain, vote for Nader (same thing), or not vote at all (again, same thing.) I personally don't think this country -- as great as we are -- can withstand another 4 to 8 years of GOP rule without tossing the Constitution in the shredder along with the environment, the economy, the working class, human rights, and even our national security.

My other real concern is what I've seen -- and here I do see it mostly among *SOME* Obama supporters -- is a sort of blind faith, hope, expectation of deliverance -- whatever you might call it -- that dumbfounds me after so many of us have been so critical of BushCo and his followers. We don't need another and should be more than a little leery of allowing another George W Bush -- even if he is the liberal version of George W Bush.

We need to really question our elected leaders at all times. We need to stop just hoping for something good to come along and hold those people in power accountable. Unquestioning loyalty does not allow for good politics. Trouncing people for criticising candidates is what led us into this Red/Blue nightmare, led us to BushCo, led us to god-knows-what. What disturbs me most is that the public is allowing themselves to once again be led by a media that refused to learn a thing after the lead-up to Mission: Accomplished. Then, the media beat the war drums, now, they play the trumpets -- earlier for Clinton, and now for Obama. When you look at a newspaper, the Politics fold really should not resemble the Entertainment section -- the only difference being the players. And even some of the cast can be found on stages in Hollywood and DC! As I've said, they are all pop stars and we really need to stop looking at them that way.

The supporters of either candidate, or any candidate, really need to hold their hopefuls to task. Turning a blind eye to everything politicians do just leaves us in the dark. Believing whatever a politician says just leads us to things like wars in Iraq.

I don't expect to sway anyone from their preference of candidate. It'd be nice, but it ain't gonna happen. But it doesn't hurt to ask to maintain civility amongst ourselves or that we practice amongst ourselves the policies and characteristics we claim to want in our elected leaders. If we can't achieve unity and accord amongst our political allies, we can hardly expect any changes in attitudes from Red to Blue.

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