Tuesday, January 22, 2008

About Hillary...As a Woman I have a Few Things to say....and It ain't pretty.


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2 Posts Down the Entire Debate is Logged in the Comments Question by Question;
If you need to review or question this post that is based on the CNN debate
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A few weeks back I was at Starbucks, and a Couple, a Husband and Wife got into a squabble. The Wife was very dramatic, with many sideglances at the Audience as she got her barbs in. The Husband was quiet, dignified and trying to quietly settle her. There was NO Settling of the Woman, she was enjoying her moment, and you could tell she thought the Limelight was favorable. It wasn't. People were retreating for the Door, Restrooms,Condiment Counter, Anywhere away from The Discussion. As I stood still awaiting my coffee, the man next to me even joked, " What the hell were they even fighting about?" I had to admit, at a certain point I think my hearing was just turned off, I could not even remember What they were saying.

I was raised by Southern Women, I was taught that Real Women do not nitpick Men in Public. I was taught that to be Shrill was undignified. I was taught that Women should have arguments at Home, not in public. I was taught that if you want people to really Listen, you should talk softly. I was taught that if you work with Men and Talk with Men, Listen Closely and Talk softly. That if you yell, People don't listen to What you have to say.I was also taught that if you want Respect, you have to give it. That is you only tout Your Fighting Skills, you are viewed as an Attack Dog, not as a Woman. And for the most part I learned that everything they said is true, atleast I know that it was true working as a Environmental Health Advocate in the Northwest in many meetings with men. I learned it is more important to Talk Softly With People , than to yell at all. It is true that I have never worked in DC, but I think for the most part what my Aunties taught me was true.

I watched the Debate last night and felt like I was back at Starbucks watching the Woman needle her Husband for the love of the Limelight. It was disrespectful and disturbing. I did not watch and think "what an amazing woman", I watched with embarrassment and sadness. This Debate was held in South Carolina, and on the Anniversay of MLK's Birthday. In her attack she came off as Imperious and arrogant.And yet the Media continues to tell me as a Woman that I have to support her, I have even heard it in the Blogatopia Circles, I even know my numbers are down because as I a woman I do not support her tactics. But as a woman I can not support her, or her methods. She is attacking a good man, because she knows that his messege of Hope has reached millions. His Message of Wanting to Unite is valuable and needed, she comes off as petty, jealous and narrow minded. He also has a Messege of Change. Because for Some People, Many of us, the Clinton Years were NOT the Wonder Years, they were just years that were in between the Bush Years. I was still working two jobs trying to raise a son, it was Nothing Special for me or my neighbors, so please let's put that Illusion to bed.

As a Woman I also say to the Media, Shame on you for attempting to define WHO we as woman vote for or should support. Shame on you for distracting away from the Real Issues, of People that are suffering in this Country into a petty scuffle on the back porch of the Whitehouse, and keeping the Limelight off the Blundering Mess of Bushco. We have MORE to face than is being talked about, from 6000 VET Suicides to 3 Million about to lost their homes in March to 37 Million going to bed Hungry. I want to hear real discussions and problem solving about HOW to fix this Mess all of us are looking at daily, from Homeless Wounded Vets on my Corner, to the old women buying catfood for dinner to the mittenless cold children with empty stomachs walking to dilapitated schools in my neighborhood past rows of Empty Abandoned Houses. I want Reality....and Humanity...and if I want to hear petty Bickering and needless nitpicking , I can still go to Starbucks.

**{ Click the Title: Fleetwood Mac and "The Chain", because it is time to break the Chains of the Past...it is Time for Change}**

29 comments:

Cartledge said...

An excellent argument, and put quietly and convincingly. We should all be looking for calm and logic rather than histrionics and theater.

enigma4ever said...

Thanks Cart....

The saddest part was actually watching the Debate, and hearing John Edwards asking repeatedly that the issues be discussed....and many of us sitting in our Living rooms were echoing his sentiments....

Perhaps the Media is Enjoying creating Gladiator Politics.....the bloody Circus event is not appropriate when we have all watched the fabric of our country be destroyed the past 7 years....

I want to see Problem Solving and Critical Thinking Skills.....( which ahem- we have seen very little these past 7 years....)and you are right ....I am wanting to see Calm Dialogue about REAL problems....

Gryphen said...

I just blogged about that meeting between Hillary and Edwards that you brought to my attention.

I also sent an e-mail to the Edwards campaign literally begging them not to be fooled by her.

I am having a Charlie Brown moment here, and Hillary is Lucy Van Pelt. I just know she is going to pull that football away at the last minute.

My stomach hurts.

enigma4ever said...

Gryphen:
I talked to a couple of people today about the MEETING that Hill held with Edwards after the debate...

(1) It was held IN Edwards Green Room...that means he asked to speak with her....that might not mean all flowers and roses- SC is HIS Home State and he was pissed ( in a very contained way...also if he checked a few things- IE. The Health Care Issue- she lied- actually Obama and Edwards Plans are similiar NOT Hill's plan....) So he might have asked to have a Chat with her...

(2) Today Poof She was GONE off to other states....so I don't think things went swimmingly....

(3) HIS Concern and ISSUE is Poverty- the People- I don't see him Fooled for two lousy minutes by her antics....He also HAD the LETTER given to him yesterday by MLKIII - very very important...

Don't lose HOPE...DON"T ....the media was very subdued today. SC Papers came out and supported Obama- and basically were not kind to Hill, many even gave her AND BILL the silent treatment...she left Bill in SC to clean up her mess...that is NOT Courageous....or admirable....she Blew it Bigtime in the South last night....Southern Women have standards and she Broke ALL the Rules last night- On MLK day....unforgivable...

Please Please don't lose Hope or Faith....Edwards is very smart...and he knows What he saw in SC...this is HIS home turf and she was badly behaved...and he knows it....( BTW when I watched the debate later that night, he barely acknowledged her on the stage afterwords....there was indeed a Chill on the stage)

D.K. Raed said...

It does not say much for women's equality if you feel that you incite anger just because you don't support a candidate who happens to be a woman. I want to hear all sides. We're all capable of making up our own minds about who best represents us. What I don't appreciate is boxing rhetoric & distasteful arguments that GO NOWHERE -- nothing was decided by those arguments in the debate last night, it was all you said-no I didn't-but what I meant-well I am best. They are vying for what is arguably the most important elected office in the world (I know, how egocentric of me). Give me an unvarnished true idea of who each one is & what they wish to accomplish. I will do the rest in the privacy of the voting booth. That is the power of an informed electorate.

I appreciate your speaking your mind about the candidates, Enigma. They are your true & heartfelt feelings. Hearing your thoughts provides valuable input that helps us all. We shouldn't feel we have to agree on every single thing. And sure as hell shouldn't feel we need to support a candidate because they happen to be the same gender as us.

EK gave me that article about the Hill-Edwards meeting, which I'll read after dinner. Did you catch Keith's debate analysis tonight? He points out, yet again, Edwards has a unique opportunity here to influence the convention. But first, we have to get to the convention, and I am afraid the ugliness is going to continue until then.

enigma4ever said...

On Countdown an important issue was brought up :CHARACTER....

And I do think that ties in what I was trying to say....I was raised a certain way...that women and men for that matter must have dignity and character and tell the truth.....and that "attacks" are not dignified.....

Speaking TRUTH to power is Very Very important...
and I don't like how she is USING Bill to clean up after her in Different States- I also wonder WHAT is his role- is this what would happen if she were elected ? Would she and he bully People and Issues ? This is NOT problem solving or HOW to Build a Team....

I wrote over at Gryphens Blog- that I think Edwards did meet with her- he was not happy about how the Debate went- and he laid the gauntlet down AGAIN reminding her that SC is HIS home State....and she was rude in HIS homestate and ON MLK day.....BAD Manners..Very bad.

IF he met with her in HIS Green Room , I think he wanted to set some things straight...

AND ABOUT the health plan- I am asking that each of you read HER PLAN and Obama and Edwards- She lied - HER plan is NOT like Edwards- and IF Someone caught that - he would speak to her right away- that issue is near and dear to him....VERY.

Also Edwards recived the MLK III letter- that is critical in the South....and she made mistakes last night....and she was rude on his turf....he is smart....and if you watched HIS body language after the debate- he stayed clear of her- VERY.

I know Many Women Readers of this Blog has steered clear of me, because I do not support Hillary. But I can not Support ANY candidate that Plays DIrty- and I won't. We have had enough Dishonesty , Lies, lack of Character these past 7 years to last a lifetime.......and just for the record...I KNOW all about HOW badly DC can lie to a person...and I have HAD it. I want the TRUTH and I want Problem Solving Skills and I want to see a TEAM of Truth Tellers and Seekers Come to DC and Bring Change....Because we as a Nation are indeed Broken....and Lies Will NOT fix that.

Thanks DK for what you said...I hear you.

annie said...

the battle lines disturb me. it's like we've learned nothing about unity (and the lack of it)these last almost-8 years.

i am so disheartened that NONE of them seem trustworthy to me. dennis did. we all know how that worked out.
if you had told me, 15 years back-that i would not be supporting hillary for president, i'd say you were off your rocker. and yet,i don't. how sad, when heroes become real people. but it happens. i was 35 then, and i was far from all-grown-up. (whatever THAT is!)
anyway, we all get to support the candidate we want. or not. it's a basic right.
that said, i will probably vote for obama. even though he hasn't turned out to be the candidate i had hoped for, either. the system has failed us all.

enigma4ever said...

Annie:
the thing is that I wanted to see a Debate on ISSUES....and I am still waiting...I think that Unity seemed like a good goal, I still do...and Honesty and Transparancy that also seems important....

today Hill tried to paint herself as Victim " He came ready for a Fight" she said , I am so embarrassed as a Woman that she acts like this....I am sad that this has happened...and that she attacks him...but I also sad that he is drawn into the fray....over the past month I have seen a side of the Clintons that really disturbed me, and made me question DO I even know them ? I too lived the 90's and read their books and watched everything that happened- but there is now a vindictive side that just shocks me....

I wanted to see OUR party unified, not torn asunder....but I am so sad that this has happened....I don't think it was wrong for any of us to want Unity...and Change....

Gryphen said...

Enigma I appreciate your kind words and I know that you are very wise.

I have no idea what happened between Hillary and Edwards. I have a hard time believing that with everything we know about john Edwards he would even consider throwing his lot in with Hillary. But I don't trust her one little bit.

And I will also tell you that I lost over a hundred visitors a day when I started calling Hillary on her bullshit. There are clearly a lot of progressives who cannot even entertain the thought that Bill and Hillary are not the saints they thought they were in the 90's.

I will watch the the next debate very, very closely. I swear if I see Edwards join Hillary to attack Obama again I will have an actual cow!

Larry said...

It's a sad day when the one standing is the one who was able to destroy their opponent, instead of explaining what they are all about.

Josie said...

Enigma, what a great post. Hillary did come off as shrill, but what scares me even more is the fact that all the bickering that is going on is going to scare some voters away from the Democratic party, and over to the Republicans. The Democrats always seem to do that. You're right, they should not be doing their fighting in public.

enigma4ever said...

Josie:
The real problem is that there should not Fighting within the Party- we have Bigger evils to fight- the Repugs of Bushco need to be well fought and not with a Victim Mentality....( I mean it- is that what Hill would use to fight Bush- as a woman that worries me even more). We need Unity, we need Strength, not shrillness or petty sniping.....Esp. NOW when we have Such Huge Problems to solve for The People.....there is NO time for it...

Larry:
It is about Standing Tall and telling the Truth to the People, and being willing to Work with the People. Hill - all she does is yell- and I don't see that as way to solve problems or build a team....that matters...and I also worry- is this how she would debate the repugs ? I am horrified at the whole process- she flings mud and then has Bill be the "Sweeper"....would she do the same as President ?
This is not going to help Repair OUR Broken Country.....

Gryphen:
You just said it in your answer- I dont trust her either- at all...and I think Edwards is Smart- Very Smart- remember he FOUGHT BIG Corporations- and he won- he has seen Bullshit tapdance in front of him before- he took his cases to TRIAL- he did not Settle- that says alot- he wanted THEIR ERRORS and PROBLEMS made Public- he is NOT a Behind Closed Doors kind of Guy....that is a HUGE Problem for Hilll...and I don't see him throwing his support behind her...at all....He has fought long and hard to on that stage...and in the thick of it....

BUT he has more of a Voice then he ever had in 2004.....remember that....

enigma4ever said...

Edwards on Letterman tonight- He does an excellent job....and yes, they do discuss The Debate....

Fran said...

I don;t have a problem with a woman being shrill if the occasion calls for it (I grew up in the midwest- "we don't take no guff"). (Ha ha)
But this is a time to lay out YOUR platform & vision & show some leadership. the cat fight was ugly & Edwards nailed it when he said how is any of this squabbling going to help poor people or college funding or fixing any of the problems?
I think the lack of a decent debate format makes this kind of sensationalized crap become acceptable.
Excellent moderation of a debate- makes for intelligent exchanges, people get equal time & time to rebuttal- interrupting & all the stuff that fell apart just made the whole thing a sham.

enigma4ever said...

Fran:
I guess the thing is if Hill wanted to get shrill with Bill ( at home) that is one thing....BUT NOT now ....kind of like you said we need to hear about WHERE they each stand on things...that is important..and Vision and leadership...those don't come up in those moments-and you are right it has alot to do with the "Moderator" ( which at this point a Circus Ring Man would be more skilled than Wolf...)

Hill interrupts like a mother-in-law on steroids...it is rude and disruptive- and everyone is soooo polite because her husband was the president??? I don't get it...she has not done a thing to "earn" all of this scripted "respect"...I am sorry, but as a junior senator does ANYONE remember a single bill she worked on, crafted or cosigned ? I even watch a boatload of Cspan- I don't remember her even at really any hearings...if she had a Questioning Streak ( ie like Boxer) I would remember that quality about her...( Actually I have seen Obama at hearings....and I was impressed- he reminded me of Feingold...thoughtful questions...)

But you are right Fran- all in all it was a terrbile debate.....

landsker said...

Here in *Old Europe*, there is a story going `round about Hilary , and tells of the evening when she spoke to a tribe of American Indians.

Hillary had been invited by an upper New York Indian tribe to give
a speech, after she had given the speech, the Chief of the Indians gave hillary an Indian name of
"Walking Eagle".
One of the young braves inquired what was the meaning of the name he had given Ms Clinton??? The Chief replied
Walking Eagle means "So full of S--T, that it can't fly, only walk".......
I`ll get my hat, and close the door as I go.

enigma4ever said...

Lanskr...
Don't you dare go...

stay- let me pour you a pint...or some hot coco....that was excellent...and thank you for the best laugh of the night....

( hmmm....interesting...walking eagle....)

No said...

Enigma,

First of all,I respect your opinion on Hillary. I can't say I disagree with what you're saying; I remember feeling the same way when I heard about the Rose Law Firm scandal and the Vince Foster scandal and the scandals kept a comin'...and I really started to distrust her...but then I thought, think of all the male politicians that have been through scandal after scandal? Do I see Hillary holier than thou, and as a woman, she should be exempt from any scandal? I don't see any of them as perfect. I like Obama...I think the two of them have good chemistry and should run together; I know my opinon is not popular; I think the two of them have more in common than not.

enigma4ever said...

NO:
This is not an issue of "scandal", this is a matter of intergrity and character. And sadly we do not agree on this issue, she has taken what could have been an exciting time in our History of Democracy , and sullied it,turning it into a Mudbath....Three very exciting people were in the stage- but she turned it into a attack platform , instead of a discussion forum. Edwards had ti right, that we have big issues before us concerning child care, VETS that are homeless etc etc.The most exciting time in our history and she will be remembering for attacking a Fine man on MLK Day in the South. This is not a proud moment for women.....how can we be proud of that moment? we can't. She came out the next day , as she left Bill to clean up her mess and distorted the facts again- even though millions watched and claimed he "picked a fight", now she is painting him a whole new way. Even Edwards said last night on Letterman that the Debate went into a Ditch.

I have no idea what you mean by "Chemistry", they have none. She is capable of great damage to our Country and Our Party as Democrats, in one short Month has she has managed to CREATE great divisions, manipulating agendas of Race and Minority Status ( all Union Busting Techniques That I am sure Mark Penn taught her). She acts Entitled and Imperious, using her First Lady Status as an anvil.

She and Bill have indeed been swiftboating him to his face with Rovian Tactics. As a Woman I am ashamed of her and Bill , and dissappointed in how they both are behaving in such an unprofessional matter.

Obama did have every right to defend his record and hard work in Chicago and DC. But it is not just at the Debate that the distortions have been used, it is daily, and tiresome and takes away from Obama's message of Hope and Change. As I see it women should be very careful supporting her and her tactics, it means we support a woman acting in such a manner ? If a White Man did what she is doing daily, he would be called Racist.

It is a sad time in Our History when a Known Woman Candidate acts in such a manner, she has set History back on it's ear.

Christopher said...

Provocative and compelling thread, E4E. Well done, as usual.

My contempt for the Borg Queen is based completely on her policy positions and voting record.

I'm sure you know all of this but here goes. For example.

1. Hillary voted the Iraq war
She refuses to say it was a mistake and refuses to apologize for her vote. But hey, what's 3,900 dead American soldiers and 650,000 dead Iraqis?

2. Hillary voted for the USA Patriot Act
Did she bother to read it before she signed it? If she had, she would've seen the "Act" is an attack on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

3. Hillary voted to reauthorize the USA Patriot Act
See above.

4. Hillary voted to make flag burning illegal
I like my First Amendment rights and I refuse to surrender them.

5. Hillary is AIPAC's candidate
Hasn't the USA gotten into enough trouble letting Israel dictate our foreign policy?

6. Hillary is anti-UN
She has said time and time again the USA should have the right to act unilaterally

7. Hillary says she's opposed to tossing out DOMA
Only repealing article 3. Gee, bitch, thanks for making me and mine a third class citizen

8. Hillary supports building a wall between the USA and Mexico
Yep. Those 4 airplanes that crashed on 9/11 were full of Mexican nationals

9. Hillary voted to recognize the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a "terrorist organization."
She has too much testosterone in her blood and is looking to pick a fight.

I could go on and on and on. I simply detest Hillary Clinton and my greatest fear about the 2008 election is she will be the nominee. Rightly or not, Hillary is one of the most reviled politicians in Washington and her negatives are in the high 50's.

If she runs against McCain, I think she will lose and we will have another Republican in the White House.

enigma4ever said...

Christopher-
that is quite a list- and she is devisive...and harmful to the Dem party and would wreak havoc on the whole process ( she already has and is continuing to ) You should apply to the Obama Truth Squad- you would be a great addition...and I agree with you that her tactics are failing and dated- and that she would indeed cause a loss to the Repugs...Her Rovian Politics are destructive....And the Media has coronated her in many ways- but finally the Print Media is starting to analyze her and Bill closer...and that may make the difference....

Keep up your fine Blogging...it matters..all of it.

Jamie said...

Hillary Clinton is my candidate. I respect her, appreciate her judgement, education and actions. She is on a man's battlefield in a nation that has never elected a woman to the office which puts us somewhere below Outer Mongolia.

Is she perfect, No. Could she use some practice in public speaking techniques. Sure and she is improving.

I find Obama sarcastic and smirky with too little time on the national scene to be ready for prime time.

I genuinely like Edwards and would have loved him for VP in the last election. Now he serves a higher purpose with his poverty campaigns.

That leaves Hillary and I will gladly vote for her.

Naj said...

As a Woman I also say to the Media, Shame on you for attempting to define WHO we as woman vote for or should support.

Bravo!

I totally agree with you.

Yes I also think women are far more effective being women that emulating a "dog attack". I think it is a major flaw in the feminist mentality that had "degraded" women into acting/talking/being men-like!

I don't understadn why a woman has to be fierce in order to justify her claim to power. And what good have these fierce women of history, the likes of Thatcher and Albright produced? Blood and sweat of others!

I think the world WILL be a much calmer place if it were run by women, real women, southern-like soft spoken motherly women, who wanted to nourish the world, who wanted to built a home for all.

I never had any faith in Clinton. And I am sack that Edward and Kucinich are swamped under this "elect a man/elect a black" dichotomy.

an average patriot said...

Good one enigma!
What you said is true but it applies to both sexes! Also I am sick of the real issues being ignored. Those of all of us as average citizens. I was happy to see Edwards tell Obama and Hillary this isn't about them it is about the avarage American! Here, Here!

Cosmic Messenger said...

The only thing the debate moderators has succeeded in doing is turning the discussions into a spitting contest between Obama and Billary fueled by their race baiting questions.

The truth about candidates' issues becomes a casualty in this type of environment as the media drives another stake in the heart of democracy with their disingenous approach.

I discuss this subject in my new column,"The Shape Of Things To Come," to be published on January 24.

Everyone is welcome to stop by and have a looksee.

Thanks for the wonderful work you do with the issues you raise here, Enigma.

Peace,
Cosmic

Gryphen said...

There are so many good points being made here. I especially liked Christopher's list of Hillary's votes and what they say about her.

The media keeps trying to make this about race and gender and I think that this thread accurately demonstrates that INTELLIGENT people do not make their choices with such shallow criteria.

I would LOVE to see a woman President. I would LOVE to see an African American President. But nobody should be elected JUST because they meet one or both of those criteria.

Just like I don't think that John Edwards should be ignored Just because he is the white guy.

There is no debate that ANY Democrat would be better then another Republican at this point. And I include Hillary in that point. But we have the chance to have the BEST candidate become the leader of this country. If I could have Obama or Edwards as our candidate I would literally be waiting outside of our local high school so that I could cast my vote for President as soon as it was humanly possible. I would not sleep the night before. And on election day I would run around asking my co-workers if they had voted yet and offering to drive them there if they hadn't yet.

In other words it would not be my obligation to vote, it would be my honor to vote.

If Hillary gets the nomination, I will vote. But I will certainly not be happy. I am guessing I won't be happy for at least four years. Probably longer.

Larry said...

Hillary spent another day proclaiming her 35 years of doing nothing, as she once again trashed anyone in her path.

She is sickening.

enigma4ever said...

10PM::::I just got in...and am Trying to get Caught UP....

Larry:
Well Well...I guess I did not really miss anything - sadly different day- and Same Hillary...sigh....I really am tired of this...as I know you are too Larry...sickening is definently one way to look at it..

Gryphen:
I think everything you said makes sense, we have a chance to Make Real Change...and Change HOW we as people talk to each other, and to other Countries, and repair Real Damage- what really worries me - IF Hill is Elected- is she going to ACT Like she is Right NOW...because it is embarrassing and almost Republican In Content and nature.....and that is NOT What I want in the Whitehouse...we have had 7 years of Hatemongering., Smearing, War Mongering, and worse.....We have seen MANY good people smeared and their careers Ruined- and now she is Doing the SAME thing.....and HOW MUCH is Bill going to be involved- because he is not acting like a regular old WH Spouse right now...

I want to see our Country United AGAIN, hell, even the DEMS united would be a pleasure at this Point...because we have Major Repair Work to get done...and we need to be able to work together- and I only see her Yelling and HOW will she build a Team ?

So G-man - I share all of your concerns , and yes, I will vote and do what needs to be done...But I also worry that she can not beat McCain- not with these Rovian Tactics=- she and Bill and breaking our Party.....

Cosmic:
you are correct- the moderators play a HUGE roll on how the debates are handled- or mishandled...and WHAT we need is REAL Dialogue- FORUM....Round Tables to HEAR What each of them would do address ISSUES and Solve Problems....it is Critical- Iraq- to VETS&families to Economy to Houselessness to Healthcare.....we all need to hear calm reasonable thinking and skills that show the ability to Lead and team build.....If I want to hear YELLING, I can listen to my neighbors....But you nailed it- the ISSUES have become a casualty....

enigma4ever said...

Patriot:
Sadly you are right, Average Americans and the Issues have all become lost....and the Media is not helping..maybe we all need to CALL and Write to the Media the Day before each debate- and get neighbors and relatives too as welll and tell them WHAT we need to hear...because they are missing WHAT it is ....thanks for reading and caring...

Naj:
Good to see you....I am glad that people are really thinking through what is going on and what they are watching unfold...we have all suffered through 7 years of hell- and we all can have a chance to be involved with the Needed Changes....and sadly we are not even given a chance to HEAR Kucinich or Edwards....not fully....and We should they all have Something to say and contribute to the discussion....

Thanks for what you said...I don't know if my AUnties were right- I do know that I listened to them and their advice...and it is funny that even in political circles it still holds true...My Aunt May was actually a Sufferegette- and she fought long and hard for the right to Vote, and she took care of herself, had a career and a Home, and was very much a lady....but she also talked Politics...and her father took photos of Lincoln- so she really understood the Politics and Pain of Division....I learned at her Knee..and I visited her after the Baltimore Riots in 1968 destroyed her neighborhood....She was Living History...and she taught me well...and that is why I think this Era of OUR History is so unsettling....We as a Nation, after Surving Bush have to be able to pull together...there is SO Much Work to be done...

Okay I rambled....sorry....thanks for being here...


Jamie:
I was trying to naswer these one by one backwards- sorry it took me so long to get back to the top...
I am dissapppointed in Hillary and Bill for that matter....I don;t like what I see happening..I am sure she is strong, capable...but I am sad at how she is handling herself and the way she is attacking and petty- I just don;t see it as Presidential...

I have watched Obama alot- I don;t think I have seen him smirk- I do think I have seen him exasperated and frustated.....I just wanted a Woman to be calm, collected...not just a woman- to be honest we need calm dialogue and quiet discussions...and we need to talk about REAL issues....

But you know that whatever Change is Needed I am a Democrat , I will try to do what needs to be done to End the Neoconal Era and Bring the Troops Home and get us Domestically on the Right Track....

So we may not agree on Hillary- I do think we agree on So Many of the Issues that need Repair- and that is what matters in the end...it's just how do we get there.... ( and to be honest the MSM has not helped keep ANY of the Issues on the table.....)

But thanks for listening and talking and being here....as long as we keep talking we can repair the Damage in this Country....I know that...