Tuesday, January 15, 2008

The Debate......


6PM BREAKING NEWS CORRECTION (8:14PM) ::: NEVADA SUPREME COURT JUST RULED THAT KUCINICH WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN DEBATE( Okay....now the Sources are in conflict, and last heard ,on Air America they were reporting that he was in Court, My Apologies...).Tonight is the Debate on MSNBC. There will be an Open Thread in the Comments. I hope that All of the Issues are thoroughly discussed, and Questioned. I hope that it is Not Another Debate full of Republican Talking Points. I hope the Iraq War , Healthcare,Poverty and Economy and Other Critical Issues ( ie. ilegal spying&torture) are given full discussion.

51 comments:

betmo said...

i shan't be watching- and i will never watch nbc again. i wouldn't count on anything of substance coming out of the 'debates' tonight- as the questions will be pre-screened and the hair perfectly coiffed for the photo op. cynical? yes maam!

enigma4ever said...

Betmo:
That is fine...I understand, I have not heard today if Kucinich will be there or not, I do know the Judge did Order that he be allowed to be a part.It was some of the Worst Shenigans I have ever seen, at this point the List just keeps growing...

I have written alot of letters to MSNBC this week....( ABout Kucinich, Slanderous Comments by Matthews and Pat Buchanon , and on and on)....

*** BTW Lydia Cornell interviewed him this week and the audio is over on her website-it is very good.....Denis did a great job....as always...

I am mostly watching because it is the only way to get to hear John Edwards....which the Media has pretty much made sure to be unheard....

I am so sorry that this whole process has been so repulsive mess....You are not the only one that is feeling cynical at this point.....there are many....

enigma4ever said...

If anyone has updates on the Kucinich Situation that would be very helpful...( I last got an update at 10pm)

Also he is collecting Funds for the Recount and for the Court Case.....( even if you are supporting another candidate, you can support Dennis's brave efforts on these two fronts)

betmo said...

last i knew- nbc was appealing and refusing to let him participate until the appeal. we'll see. democrats should be looking to clean house in our own party too. after this election, if dems don't clean house- they should leave the party in droves. vote independent. i was for third party anyway- but realized that this election is too crucial to fool with that now. i am wondering what the difference is between the extremely marginalized green party- and some of our own democratic nominees. not much. perhaps i should do a post on the research i did to run for president.

betmo said...

this just in-

it's in the hands of the state supremes i think.

http://somehistoricalperspective.blogspot.com/2008/01/
who-gets-to-be-heard-from.html

enigma4ever said...

6pm SUPREME COURT ruled on the Appeal- is what I heard....and that he will be allowed- this is a different ruling- the other ruling was by Judge, as far as I know...this was just sent to me via another Ohio Denis supporters...

enigma4ever said...

6:41PM

Okay from what I can find at 5 Pm Denis and Elizabeth were in court with the Supreme Court- at 6pm it was ruled that Denis is allowed in the Debate....this was on Randi Rhodes Show and the link to MSNBC NOW lists Denis's name.

( we'll see if this is for real)

enigma4ever said...

6:49
OKAY...just listened to Rachel Maddow....on Air America...hmmm, she says that they are still in Court...so I don't know...

this is going to be a Wait&See ???

enigma4ever said...

8:35 PM....
Denis was ruled against...he will not be in the debate....sadly.

enigma4ever said...

9:05 PM:

Lead Question: Racism: Brian Williams ( Because of MLK Day) asked Clinton...about WHAT happened on the Race issue ( he would not even say Bob Johnson's name)....

Hill: She changed subject...and tried to weave her gender issues.. ( very cold answer....maybe uncomforable..)
Obama: very cool, dignified , "traps of division" we can not fall into that...." Much more unites us, than divides us".
Edwards: We have made progress, but we need to create equality for all...etc etc..( good job - passionate and caring)

Russert: ( Some papers he holds up - that he says are ??? related to the issue- I have no idea WHAT they are- his staff probally was indeed keeping track- I have no idea how he got the papers he is holding...) "Do you believe that this was an attempt to marinalize you as a Candiate.

Obama: Look at Iowa, and what has been accomplished there .
Russert : Was race an issue in NH
Obama: No, clinton ran a good campaign , people voted, because we have problems. People are going to vote for change because Change is going to happen...they are demanding it..

Clinton: Russert asks the Bob Johnsons horrible spectacle _ will you not allow Bob Johnson, and she defends him, and says "he released a statement on what he meant". ( she did not answer the question, and changed the subject to WHAT she has been doing...totally did not shed any visible distance from BJohnson)

Edwards ( Viewer question about change). DC is broken, and people are struggling- passionate, personal....battle for real opportunity for other people, because I had opportunity...WHO will fight for the middle class,. The Union Rights, I beleive in this with all my soul..."What is a white amle to do running against these historic candidates"He answered that these issues, are not supposed to be weighted, but it matters on WHO we are...

Williams asked Obama "The Likable Comment" : He answered I did not think it was even a problem, I was saying she was and is likable. He goes straight to the Issues, we have real issues that need dealing with....

Edwards: talking about Speaking the truth...reiterates that Obama is asking that we talk about ISSUES..

( okay HOW long are we going to go through this...let's get to the Issues, enough of the personal crapola....let's get to the REAL Questions...20 minutes gone....BUT it is nice to not have a clock ticking..)

'AUDIENCE YELLING/COMPLAINING ABOUT RACE BASED QUESTIONS"

enigma4ever said...

9:23 Continued Debate:

Hillary: yelling about being 'Ready'...she has to stop yelling...My experience , My Vision ( I still don;t know what that is).....

Russert: You would argue that you are the most prepared, but do you think you are ?
HILL: She says it is up to the people.

Obama: ( Another Russert question) "Are you not an Operating Officer" is what Obama said to a newspaper, and he is explaining that it is about HOW to get behind an agenda for change- it is more than shuffling papers, and hiring a staff...It is about being strong enough to not let get Special Interestts get in the way. "My ability is my strength is to bring together"..But I also need to have good people around.

Edwards: " greatest strength- fighting and advocating for people that need someone to fight for them,,,I have what it take inside to fight for people. Waekness: strong response to situations and people, talks about dignity and respect, and it is emotional way.

Hill: I want to make this country better, I have worked to make the lives better...I have been blessed. ( hmm, she needs to say her strength?)....People need to live up to their potential. I have a lack of patience, I push people faster than they are ready to go. ( and now she takes this time to nitpick at Barack about the bureacy...I don;t get it- she is supposed to talk about Her weaknesses...she is off tangent...I don;t get it). You have to set the tone and the vision ( but she sounds harsh).

Obama: Bringing together a team, but we need to bring together the right people. He even cracks a joek...BUT what Bush could not do was listen to others and listen of different persepctives....he could not manage the people 's responses and info.....It is about Judgement, it is about Skills, not management skills...but nobody was honest with the American people, and did not work with them.

Obama ( asked by Willaims about the Bible swearing,and Christianity). He explained that he was sworn in on bible, and he is a Christian.( Very gracious). Cliamte Change, Healthcare, these are the issues that we need to talk about , and my Vision....I place my trust in the Amiercan people, they are smarter than this.

9:35 BREAK ( Economy up next)

( Still nothing about war...gee, I am shocked.)

Gryphen said...

They are talking about countries overseas bailing out our struggling finance companies.

You know I heard somebody mention that we are essentially being bailed out with our OWN money. Money that we sent over to get their support is now being used for them to buy influence in OUR country. How fucked up is that?

I am LOVING Edwards on this issue.

Fran said...

January 15, 2008, 8:10 pm
NBC Wins Battle Over Debate
By Brian Stelter
The Nevada Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that MSNBC is not required to include candidate Dennis Kucinich in its scheduled Democratic presidential debate.

The seven-member court overturned Monday’s ruling by a Nevada district court judge.

The decision, which came one hour before the debate was scheduled to begin in Las Vegas, meant that Mr. Kucinich would not share the stage with the party’s three leading contenders, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards. The debate is expected to begin at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC.

MSNBC had no immediate comment on the ruling. It will likely be described as a First Amendment victory by the news organization, as lawyers for NBC had argued that it had a right, as a privately owned network, to determine whom to invite to the debate. The network changed the criteria for participation in the debate after other candidates dropped out of the Democratic race for president last week.

On Monday senior district court judge Charles Thompson had ruled that Mr. Kucinich should be allowed to participate in the debate, citing a breach of contract by NBC Universal. Two days after a consultant for NBC invited Mr. Kucinich to the Las Vegas debate, NBC changed the criteria to only include candidates who had placed first, second or third in either the Iowa caucuses or New Hampshire primaries. The revised criteria excluded Mr. Kucinich, who has averaged 3 to 4 percent support in recent Nevada polls, prompting him to file a complaint on Monday.

The district court judge sided with Mr. Kucinich and said he would issue an injunction halting the debate if the candidate was excluded. NBC Universal responded by requesting an emergency hearing to review the decision. The state Supreme Court sided with NBC, determining that the lower court had exceeded its jurisdiction in making the ruling. Additionally, the court ruled that Mr. Kucinich did not have an enforceable contract with the network.

While awaiting the court’s ruling on Tuesday, the NBC News correspondent Kevin Corke explained the network’s position in a conversation with Tucker Carlson on MSNBC.

“We were expecting to have the three major candidates. Why? Well quite frankly, because those are the probable candidates. That pool is the most viable pool. And truthfully, most people want to hear what Hillary Clinton and John Edwards and Barack Obama have to say,” Mr. Corke said. “After all, those are probably the three they’re going to be picking from.”

Mr. Corke said he doubted that Mr. Kucinich would attend the debate. “I’m not so sure it serves the voters that well,” he said, “but certainty there’s a feeling here that every voice needs to be heard.’

Mr. Carlson responded: “Well as long as judges are deciding who’s on television, frankly I want a better time slot, and I plan to petition the court.”

At the state Supreme Court hearing on Tuesday, an attorney for NBC invoked the news organization’s First Amendment rights.

“Simply because you allege breach of contract doesn’t lessen the burden of the First Amendment,” Donald Campbell said, according to the Las Vegas Sun. An attorney for Mr. Kucinich said the candidate’s absence on the debate stage “would be detrimental to voters.”

Mr. Kucinich had previously framed his dis-invitation as an attempt by NBC to muzzle dissenting voices. In a statement last week he labeled corporate media control of information sinister and un-American.

Several recent quarrels between presidential candidates and television networks have prompted conversations about the rights of those media organizations to formulate criteria for participation at debates.

ABC News did not invite Mr. Kucinich, Democratic candidate Mike Gravel or Republican candidate Duncan Hunter to its New Hampshire debates on Jan. 5.

Fox News Channel did not invite Ron Paul to its Republican forum in New Hampshire on Jan. 6, prompting the state’s Republican party to pull its sponsorship of the event.

Brian Williams, the anchor of “NBC Nightly News,” is scheduled to moderate the debate. The format includes a twist: for the first time in this presidential debate cycle, “the candidates will have the ability to question each other during one particular segment,” Mr. Williams noted in a blog post.

Anok said...

Why the hell is Kucinich being forced out of debates? Did I miss something? Apparently. Please Enigma, enlighten me!

Oh, and thanks for transcribing the debate - that is awesome Keep up the good work chica!

Gryphen said...

Hillary admitted a mistake!

Quick somebody check the temperature in hell.

Larry said...

Here is why MSNBC doesn't want Kucinich in the debates:

Hillary Clinton's name on MSNBC's Meet the Press homepage (she spoke with Tim Russert yesterday) is currently hyperlinked directly to Clinton's campaign website, where visitors are prominently encouraged to "Drive Hillary's campaign to victory by donating today."
...

Looking back at appearances of other 2008 presidential candidates, I've found no evidence that any of them has received the same treatment from Meet the Press on MSNBC's website...

enigma4ever said...

Edwards- great..
Obama: Oversight, accoutability, structures,

Hill: her solution was we need to talk the Agencies and Companies involved ( WHAT ?)

Edwards: asked about the Bankruptcy laws, and he said that he regreted his vote) very honest....he talks about the struggles, and ALL costs....very honest, and Finally someone mentioend that middle class incomes in trouble. Universal Healthcare...he sites Barack again...Nationala Law on predatory laws...Min Law- 9.50....
College for kids...work when in college and pay for school.Banks make too much off college loans.

Hill : asked by Russert about bill she signed ( she is defending that it never went to law) She is now asking of speaking about Bamruptcy laws,....and how they need to be changed ( but she is yelling again...BUT I don't know what she is talking about)

"Black& Brown " groups ????what? ( I have to say ALL kinds of people are being victimized- ALL kinds )
She is still yelling ( reiterating what John and Obama both already said..)

Obama : calm, quietly answered, modify Predatory practices- put bills in over at year ago....Bad legisltaion is affected with lobbyists..

Gryphen said...

I don't think she is yelling.

I fear that is her normal speaking voice.

And now I feel bad for Bill again.

enigma4ever said...

Everyone thanks for being here...

Obama ( asked write in question about Tax cuts) he explains that the Rich are paying different amounts- and explain that it is unjust...and he also has explained that he has talked with Warren Buffet- he clearly understands what is going on- about middle icome people getting squeezed...and he also mentioned before this question about the number of people losing homes and have bacnruptcy due to HEALTH issues...NOW he is finally mentioned that we nee to get economy to grow- he sites Johns idea...

Clinton: ( audeince question) " Foreclosure question if rates are freezed" She is yelling again. but she is explaining about the interest rates and the Fed Reserve- says that will stabilize the market-(actually that is not right- but whatever) She keeps talking about her Action Plan ( a fund that would prevent foreclosure????) (BUT how will that help? ) She does not link the issues together so that regular people can understand what she is talking about.

NOW ANOK: about Kucinich : he was removed from the panel after being invited, it was supposed to be a debate with the TOP 4- but he took NBC to court- and he did not win his battle....bless him...I am sorry- we need him there ...

enigma4ever said...

Okay Now we have a Converation between John and Obama,

ABout Healthcare money< John asked Does Obama expect Anything back, or does the Company expect anything back..

( NOW Gryphen....we can still feeel sorry for Bill....I think you might be right...sadly)

Obama is talking about "what we have to fight for"
( CLinton is watching this- with raised eyebrows).

Clinton can only ask One Question...oh great, she wants to ask Obama a question...
" We both want to ask Bush to end War in Iraq, without asking the Congress ?" ( she is yelling again- she is asking Obama to do something? I don;t understand what she is asking Obama- )
Okay she is asking Obama if he would cosign this bill to stop Bush's Bill with keeping the War going to the next presidency.....

OBAMA: talking very quietly and saying yes, I will work with you on this. this is my first job is to call in the JOin Cheiefs of Staff, and fade our invlvemnt there...

Williams: will you join Obama with 2009 troop withdrawl- Edwards- ALL troops out and NO permmant bases.

Obama: corrects Russert- and says that NO perm Bases, NO combat mission , embassy will have to be protected. ( actually it is a realitic answer)

enigma4ever said...

Hill : has jumped in and is argumentative...and said that GOP candidates are the problem....

Edwards: ALL combat troops out in first year.

Obama: I am following up , oh wait am I asking john his question ( very subtle humor) but he is having a very interesting question with John and it is nice to see them discussiing this- it is a serious question about military presence in Iraq....(very interesting...)

Hill quiet.

enigma4ever said...

Obama: "Distinction with out a difference" and then he and Edwards nod at each other- they have reached an understanding about what and how much military presence is needed.

It was nice to see Obama and Edwards discuss this quietly and thoughtfully and with no yelling...just quiet discussionn...

Gryphen said...

Interesting exchange between Obama and Edwards, They essentially argued about keeping troops in Iraq or not until they realized they agreed.

And it is very subtle but I am still picking up a connection between Edwards and Obama. It is clear they like each other a lot and are in agreement on almost every issue.

Hillary is still the odd "man" out.

Cartledge said...

I think I can follow that :) Quite a commentary.

enigma4ever said...

Russert: ( Question for Hill) College and university can lose funding if they do not have relationship with recruiters , Fed law on books ? ( Okay- I might have messed this question up -m sorry_ Don't know what he is talking about) Now she is wondering on issue- Service of ALL kinds is important....ROTC ? ROTC is not present at all schools that Russerts asked about...

OBAMA: same question , says he will support the law...( I need to learn about this law)....Different communities are bearing the weight of Iraq, different force structre, he has brought out the strain on families. The Obligation to serve, $4000 to engage in national service, non military service , ie like Peace Corp.

Edawrds: segaways to PTSD, and homeless issues,and the effects on families.. All Military is being effeccted and taken care of and job training...Americans need to help find them jobs and take care of them...vets should not be waiting 60 12 montes for care...

Obama: follows up Edwards issues, how Walter Reed patients paying for their meals and their phone calls...this is wrong...

Hill: healthcare and ??? traumatic brain injury....( that is not the same as PTSD)...exams , we have to track what happens to them ( that is not the same as care)...

****************************
Yucca Mountain Brian Willaims Questions

Obama: I will end the notion of Yucca Mtn becuas ethere is NO sound science that would garantee their safety...I have been clear from the start....we will have to figure out storage. Best Science.

HILL: I have always been against Yucca ( repeat repeat). ( now she brings up Obama ?excelon?

Obama: I have never not oppsed Yucca

Edwards: hmmm Yucca mtn, docs forged ???? I am against Nuke powerr,.,,,dangerous and wasteful and expensive and unsafe, that is part of the issue- he is asking Obama about that.

Obama: asked about the Nuke power issue. ( Russertt, asked about last energy bill) Clean Energy was the main thrust of the bill., if we could figure out safe and cost effiecinet and store, I would support..( UGH...Someone has to talk to him) menu of opptions , but if it is not safe...no...CAP program ( ugh- someone talk to him )...If nuke energy can not meet these standards then no.

Hill: She call is the Dick Cheney Energy bill...(*** it was never humped that way ) Stragetic Energy Bill with tax subsudies??? ( ****oh gee their profits would not be taxed- too late-0 30 Billion dollar too late) solar, wind, and

Russert: about Nuke power ??? he talked to some science? program..( so that s great Russert is a Nuke expert.....let's send him to Chernobyl)

edwards:
brak iron grip brom fueil folks- yet he confronts that Hill has money from them....
carbon, pollutters to pay .... No more Coal plants to be bulit ( one of the biggest MSNBC sponsers- ouch)
rebuttal:

enigma4ever said...

Hill: "parternership" let s summon the country

OBAMA: consumption, and effeciencey, and real change where ordinary people can assist the process, and people can make a difference..and be inolved and make drastic cuts...
***********************
NEW SUBJECT: WILLIAMS / IMMIGRATION REFORM

Edwards: people ( 12-14 million) can earn citizenship..pay fine,and learn English, but we should help with that process.

RUSSERT: Hill, a pollster said that there is drift between" black brown" issues....( BTW that expression is NOT used anymore- it is an 80's focus group expression...."diversity issues" is the proper term....)

Obama: education issues brougt to the discussion and the faliture of No Childn Left behind ( a way to punish the shcools and children)...this is an urgent issue...in the WH....we have to have parents take this issue serious...and he speaks about black fathers being absent, I intend to make this an issue.
Parents have a role.

HILL: "Black brown debate" ( *****shit if she says this one more time.....NO ONE calls it this...)...100 Black men program ....( she is just talking about her NY stuff)(

Edwards: 2nd Chance Shcools- ( excellent)

**********************
Gun Deaths asked about by Russert : next commetn

enigma4ever said...

( Hey Cart- good to see you...and Gman- yiup- that was interesting)

Hill: gun question...Legal vs Illegal Gun issue ( ** she sidestepped the rate of Black on Black crime issue) She has backed off a national licenseing program...

Obama: tracing guns is a part of the issue, NRA is not allowing. There is an issue about lawful s lawful gun issues....34 shot dead children in chicago, it is about 2nd amendment respected....

Edwards: Licensinging and registration is still not effective , he explian to russert again. Assualt weapons need to be banned again ( expired under bush)

BREAK:

Gryphen said...

Is Brian asking the fear card question? Oh yes he is!

Larry said...

Who is more Republican- Williams or Russert?

Gryphen said...

Easy one, Russert.

Brian hangs out with Jon Stewart.

enigma4ever said...

FRAN::: thank you for putting the Kucinich issue- I hope you saw it ANOK.
**********************

Brian: asked about the fearmongering question about how she brought up Gordon and the attack question

Hill; okay she gives all the standard rhetoric "about quellling the threat of terra" ( blah blah)

Obama: We have been dominated by the Politics of fear ever since 911. She did a good job after 911, BUT I don't think the spector of fear to be brought up as a comapign issue- he now talks about how that fear was played on to take us into Iraq. I plan to be honest and straightforward with the american people and rebuilding relationships and alliances around the world...

Hill: she talks about Gordon Brown and how he was tested as soon as he was in office ( why that is revelant??) It matters who is president and the beuarcacuy and we need vigilance and watch ( same rhetoric as bush ??)

Edwards : Russert asked about his phone call to Musharref : Was it appropriate to talk to Mushsarreff. I called the Pakistani Ambassador....I said I had some things I wanted to say to him, then he caled me back I was tough on him, I told him what was needed. He also talked about Bhutto, he told Musharref that an External Investigation and the path to Democracy to continue and the elections have to continue- but these were the same things I would say as President.

***************************
Question from Jim Milton in ca:
WHen did you decide you were going to be pres?

HILL: last Jan, I want to be the problem solveer

Edwards: Decemeber a little over at year ago, made it with my family....it is personal

Obama: Dec 06 on vacation with family, could family survive,and wife extraordianary etc...Was there something that I could do better than others,,...that i could be honest with the american people and bring this country together and unite them to path of Change...

Finale....

Thank you for Being here...

( this will be reaired...later....I will watch again later)

Now Keith....

Larry said...

Brian Williams is an admitted Republican.

enigma4ever said...

Thanks for all being here....

thank heavens minimal Tweety....

Sooooo what does everybody think?

enigma4ever said...

okay shit..I spoke tooooooo soon....Tweeety is blathering....time for mylanta shooters..

Gryphen said...

My favorite question of this debate was the fear card question posed to Hillary. I just wish they would have expanded on it and allowed Edwards to weight in as well.

Hillary sounded just like a Republican candidate for those few minutes. She may have garnered some potential Republican votes but I hope that the news media will use those remarks to educate the Democratic voters on just who Hillary really is.

Aaahhh! Tweety is doing the analysis with Keith. Why do they keep trotting him out?

enigma4ever said...

Ahhh the Fear question and she went right into her same thing she said that caused the question????

anyways....ys, Tweety is sooooo offensive...WHY WHY...do we have to tortured like this???

They need other people Chuck Toodd, Micheal Wolf etc etc..

we need more people to analyze...

then tweety having as a siezure..

Larry said...

This was boring as there was too much niceness and too much Russert/Williams softballing Hillary.

enigma4ever said...

Larry: I agree, but I also think that if they were tougher - she would have pulled the victim, this is so unfair stance....I just tried to look at it- WHO is most presidential- and it was nice to see Obama and Edwards really talking about Iraq- and thinking together..that really showed me something....I did not see her "working with other people skills"....I also hated when she kept saying that this is a Brown Black debate and Brown Black State....I thought it was offensive and not acknowledging the debate is about issues effecting all people....

Okay ,...I don;t know how much of Tweety I can take.....I might have to elvis my TV... grrrrrrr.....

Gryphen said...

Obama's campaign manager is bringing up the politics of fear with Tweety.

This is gong to be THE talking point for Olbermann and others who are not in Hillary's corner.

By the way, when did Matthews develop this bizarre crush on Hillary? I thought he hated the Clinton's! Did they get to him too? Or is he just trying to diffuse the anger directed at him for attacking her after New Hampshire?

Damn he creeps me out!

enigma4ever said...

G::

I noticed that, I thought Obama did a great job of bring that issue into light....now WHO is the Clinton Person - Rodney Slater ? I don't recognize him- it is usually Mark Penn....


I think Matthews has a Love/hate relationship with her- and I also think he has been a brat to her and has been reprimanded by the Heirarchy...or who knows...he could be just Loving her since she won...becuase he did not love her after Iowa...

He is so unprofessional...

I think he is told what to do...personally...because he does not like her...oh hell he is rude to all women...except Ann Coulter..

enigma4ever said...

Gryphen: about how he creeps you out ?
yeah, I would rather have a root canal than listen to him for an hour...

D.K. Raed said...

This is wonderful! I don't know how you can do this & watch the debate at the same time. I recorded it & just finished watching. Your comments are dead on. Only a few thoughts from moi:

About Yucca Mtn ... Edwards is not dodging the fact that he voted for it (twice), but he is correct that the original science was skewed. Awful cover-ups about earthquake potential, ground-shifting, surface & underground contamination, etc. Forged documents did indeed emerge & I'm glad they caused him to cease supporting Yucca.

About the bizzaro Musharref question posed by Russert to Edwards ... Russert accused him of making a phone call to provide "cover" for Musharref. I wanted to SCREAM: just what the holy hell are you implying, Russert, you pig-brain excuse for a journalist? You think cuz you walk on 2-legs, you are entitled to fling out an accusation like that? Explain yourself! But no, Edwards just calmly answered about insisting on an independent investigation of Bhutto's death. I wanted fire, passion, this was a deliberate slur on his motives! Missed opportunity.

An observation involving the balls or lack thereof of the candidates tonight: Neither Williams nor Russert announced at the beginning what was the status of Dennis Kucinich. After finding out the news at the last minute, I think the Big-Three should have insisted that an empty chair be placed at the table. No words would be necessary then. Just an empty chair would've meant a lot.

OK, one more thing: does anyone know what happened to the guy who screamed out about racist questions? Was he escorted out like at a repub debate? He sure shut up fast & the camera did not pan the audience. In fact, at various points in the debate, there were more audience noises, unintelligible, but kind of disgruntled.

enigma4ever said...

Dk:
Well, I thank anyone who could read what I wrote- it is very hard to type, try to listen, field questions from 6-6, and WATCH...because it is all about the expressions, the body language ( like jury watching....)....so this my worst typing....and translating of events....but if you mustered through...thank you...

Now about the different issues:
(1) You are so right about Dennis- and the decision was made right before- litterally minutes...Keith announced- so I guess that was considered taken care of ??? I have no idea...but I agree with you- and all of it again has left the process besmirched...

(2)About Yucca- I was glad to hear Edwards talk about it...and I did not know about the Forged Docs....( I have suspected...)

(3) The Mushareff issue- I had heard Edwards twice interviewed about this and he explained that he thought it was an important issue and needed to be handled calmly and yes, he reached out- but it was in true diplomatic fashion- this is what a REAL leader would and should do...Russert made an ass of himself....

(4) I have been seraching online about the guy who complained about the Racial line of questoning...by tomorrow I am sure we will learn more....

thanks DK...really good observations....and glad you got to watch...and join us here...

Fran said...

Since the debates are not on the public airwaves, I feel like both Kucinich & I were shut out.
Ron Paul had the same experience on the repug side.
This has to stop. NBC should not be able to argue their "free speech rights" involve shutting out a candidate for a Presidential debate?
What floors me is the first judge not only ordered NBC to let Kucinich in the debate, but he said he would shut the whole thing down if they did not follow court orders. Now that would have been a sight to behold!

But NBC appealed to the State Supreme court, and they overturned the lower court ruling.
So the NBC corporation has it's free speech rights protected & the rest of the country has been shat upon.

The First Amendment:

Bill of Rights

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

How the hell does omitting Kucinich from the presidential debate fall under this amendment?

We need to demand a basic standard in which to conduct debates & stop all this nonsense.

enigma4ever said...

Fran: I totally agree...this is wrong...and yes, it has to stop....on another Blog they suggested that the NEW Pres could appoint kucinich to FCC chair....

I don;t even know who to write to anymore...or where to get relief on this issue...I am stymied- I silly me- thought that the Judge made real progress the other day....

I am so sorry that this is happening...

Gryphen said...

Well I had fun last night.

I even left my blog to visit here and stayed because Enigma was doing much better at keeping track of things then I was.

d.k. that guy from last night made the remark that Russert was asking "race based questions". (Weird, I was going to post a link to the video which I swear I saw at least twice this morning and simply cannot find it.)

I am going to hammer on the Hillary fear card portion of last nights debate, which I truly feel is her weakest spot.

As for Obama I wish he had not said that he did not feel like he should micro-manage, because you just know that is going to get a lot of play.

Edwards did a very good job last night, when they let him get a word in edge wise.

Anok said...

Fran, Larry, Enigma - thank you for your answers!

I see that the media has now taken it upon itself to decide who the voters should hear from....thus seriously inhibiting the ability of voters to make informed choices. They have forced the public to now accept that the top three candidates are the only choices the public has - the rest apparently, and based soley on straw polls and "expert forecasts", won't make it, so why should we hear them?

Of course they know that if the other candidates have an opinion, and the voters hear it and - gasp! - like it! - the party's pet candidates might lose ground.

We need a different system.

Other than that - thank you for your in depth coverage of the debate!!!!

enigma4ever said...

ANOK:
I agree, I am so tired of the Media really has manhandled our whole process...it is so infuriating...and very frustating....we , WE THE PEOPLE, deserve better, it is odd because the Newspapers and News Media have decreased numbers- you think they would realize that it is because of their own doing....as they lose more and more money maybe they will realize that most of us depend on our coverage via Internet- and that it their fault.

Anok said...

I wrote a nasty e- mail to MSNBC about it - you can read it on my blog. I suggest everyone does it. If nothing else, it does make you feel a little better. I don't even endorse Kucinich (but I do appreciate his debate style, the guy is nuts! I love it!) but he still entitled to have his platform heard, since he is, after-all, still in the running.

enigma4ever said...

Anok: thanks for doing that...I too have written numerous letters about their censorship in this process, and unfair treatment of the candidates.
It is not up to the Media to decide WHAT and WHO we hear from...

Gryphen : Thank you for being here last night and your insightful and humorous comments....

enigma4ever said...

It is the next night....thanks to everyone for being here...I just reread the thread...( 6-6 and I were talking tonight and neither of us could remember did Katrina come up ? he pointed out that ever since Katrina happened that is when the race issue came up- but was ignored...pretty astute...sadly...anyways...we could not remember if it came up or not...)

You all are wonderful - you are smart , paying attention and caring...and observant...thank you for being here...all of you....

We are NOT Invisible anymore....WE THE PEOPLE matter......don't ever forget that..