I know that I have been beating Healthcare issues like a dead horse ...BUT......that is the way of it. As a Nurse I have to focus on this issue, it is too important , 50 Million People without Healthcare is a Crisis.
So MORE Questions about Hillary's Health Plan :::
(1) IF She is SO GOOD at the Health Care Plan- WHY did she bomb so bad in the 1990's....and could it be because she had relationships with Drug Companies and Insurance Companies ?
(2) People need to ask her WHY 10% of their Income is an Acceptable Cap Amount ( I have seen her say this on campaign speechs on CSpan)
(3) HOW Much do the Senators pay for the Socialized Medicine they recieve ? Which Companies provide their Federal Coverage, and couldn't that coverage be expanded for ALL ?
(4) IF she does believe in Universal Healthcare for All, Should people with Medical Conditions and Pre-existing Conditions
have to pay MORE than everyone else ? ( or should they just be denied like they are now ?) And Companies that Cancel Coverage on people- shouldn't they be Penalized ?
(5) Would Medical Bureaucrats be Making the Decisions ? or would Medical people be able to Consult and work on the Changes ? ( because Nurses and real doctors in the Field were not consulted last time).
(6) Is HER Plan about MANDATORY INSURANCE....VS. Universal Healthcare, there is a BIG difference...Remember that.
**CLICK THE TITLE AND WATCH MICHEAL MOORES VIDEO ABOUT HILLARY'S PLAN THE FIRST TIME.....( I realize we can blame Hill and Bill for the Failure in the 1990s....)
**** Also it was mentioned in the thread below...DO SEE Frontline Episode : Sick Around the World....
24 comments:
Well E, I guess you have to put it in perspective-- if you make $109 million, 10% to health care is no big deal. When you are living at or near poverty level- or you are "middle class" (what does that mean anymore?)- any basic surgery or hospital stay will run anywhere from$15,000 to $90,000- enough to bankrupt most anyone. Even people with insurance can wind up paying 20% or more, plus co pays, while laid up & unable to work. Having insurance does not necessarily protect you from the creditors coming after you. Some insurance companies- the name of the game is stalling, denying claims, working hard to NOT provide coverage.
As an aside- not only is the county I live in shutting down the animal shelter that handles 5000 animals a year, they also pink slipped the search & rescue people (16 people drowned in the local river last summer), as well as the County health clinic- the last hope for people without insurance for healthcare.
They should issue numbers like they do @ the DMV in the emergency room & urgent care facilities.... because that is where people will
go.
Heck-of-a-job, George.
Heck-of-a-plan, Hillary
the same problem here...Fran....clinics closing..and the pet shelters too...
( NONE of the Hospitals and ERs are hiring either...there is a Freeze too....and Someone like me is considered too pricey...)
Fran:
Just to finish your thoughts on this...you are right people losing homes - so many in a 4 block area here- I can not help but wonder HOW many were health related ( with lower /middle income and also elderly)....how many lost their homes due to health issues?
Does Hill realize that Surgery like Bill had would wipe most families out ?
Does she really think that going on with BillO and hitching a ride in a Pickup makes her a regular american? gimme a break..
Most people are under- insured- I think we all are....and I do worry about the care people are getting across the country....
At the same time as Hillary was failing to get a national insurance plan in the 90's, Germany & Switzerland sacked their private health systems. In Germany, their new system still allows people to buy private supplemental for-profit insurance, but no one can opt out of the basic plan. In Switzerland they made all health insurance non-profit & all health care is price controlled. Either way is a vast improvement over what we currently have. No one goes bankrupt from medical bills there. It's unheard of.
We have a big health care choice to make. Either limit profit from the health care picture, thus causing current health providers & insurance companies to bleed a little. Or keep things the way they are, thus causing american health patients to bleed a lot. I'm tired of bleeding.
For what is worth I have been postulating on just why you/we don't need another Clinton. I note another henna has been complicant in the discussion. Unless the collective US really wants a continuation of failed policy I really don't understand why she remains in the race.
Yet, there are still Hillbots, both men and women, who say the Borg Queen's plan for Nat'l Healthcare is better than Barack Obama's plan.
One male blogger (we've discussed him, Enigma) is still lumbering along using his blog to claim Obama's plan doesn't go far enough but the Borg Queen's does.
What are you going to do? They're in love with Hillary and it clouds their vision.
This is my primary objection to HC, aside from the fact that Bill was Bush, Sr. Light and complicit with regards to NAFTA, MIL Technology Sellouts to the Chinese, etc. Not as openly supportive as Bush, Jr., but still serving the same masters. Look at her list of contributors. Her health care plan is just another boon the HMOs and health care profiteers. They are at the root of the problem, and in no way are they any form of solution.
Oh yea, I almost forgot:
(6) HER Plan is about MANDATORY INSURANCE vs. Universal Healthcare, there is a BIG difference. Remember that.
Indeed there is - just ask the people of Massachusetts how that's working out. (And Mitt.)
(3) HOW Much do the Senators pay for the Socialized Medicine they recieve? Which Companies provide their Federal Coverage...
They pay nothing out of pocket.
And WE are the Company that provides their free lifetime "insurance" and retirement.
But they're special, see. Smarter, more honorable, more necessary to America. Just ask them - they'll tell ya straight up. It's the same reason their special, genetically superior offspring don't fight in wars or serve time in prison for their crimes.
They are superior to everyone else.
For some reason, my comment double posted... You missed nothing.
Now move along, the red zone is for loading and unloading only.
The Borg Queen's healthplan will require you to buy into the government system -- like FICA deductions, and if you miss a payment, the Feds can report the late payment to the 3 credit reporting bureaus the same way a missed Visa or Mastercard payment can be reported late.
omg...
you all really said it all...
So just to make this more interesting McCain is at the Cleveland Clinic today....he is proposing that the Private Insurance Companies Compete more...( cough)....and wahooo a $5000 Tax Credit ( oh goody a Tax Credit for the wealthy...has he thought about 5000 a PERSON is alot of money to be spending on Insurance)...
CHRIS:
yup....Mandatory Insurance is a nightmare...and solves nothing- and she has NEVER ever mentioned any kinds of regulations on the Insurance Companies.....
DrKNOW:
hmmm , more special - not ;-)
but Obama is right we should be offered the SAME plans and Coverage that we are paying for for them...
Cart:
I will be over today to have a good read...I have been not making enough rounds...( I got frustated earlier this week with the Word Verification thingy)...
DK:
wow..you are our world expert....that's it I will start making a list of where to go...interesting that all those Countries have survived and thrived...
To be honest, Hilary Clinton's failure to form a coherent universal healthcare policy stemmed much from her naivite in those early years. She thought she might have the ability to take on the AMA and pharmaceuticals in one fell swoop, and she correctly identified them as the major stumbling blocks to healthcare for all. On that point, I don't really have any ill will toward her.
I think her sellout tendencies became in the modified policy that kowtowed to those interests to yield a policy that would have been simply unworkable. It's another instance where the ambitions of both Clintons overwhelmed their good sense and latent decency.
As this campaign lumbers on, we see Senator Clinton sacrificing principle after principle in a desperate attempt to gain the nomination. That includes playing the race card from the bottom of the deck, embellishing her personal history, and splintering the Democratic Party to the point where we might see a continuence of the current neocon agenda for at least four more years--after all, McCain is proving himself as much of an opportunist as Clinton.
PBS ran a story last month covering various countries and their health care systems. The Swiss stood out in particular as having confronted the same problems we are now facing: An entrenched, for-profit health care system with huge amounts of pointless overhead (i.e. investors) and overbooked doctors and greedy labs who are profit oriented. Additionally, malpractice insurance has skyrocketed, and I remember years ago several local OBGYNs simply closed shop rather than pay the extortionary insurance costs. It is a multipronged problem having no one easy answer. Too many pettifoggers, too many practitioners in it for quick bucks, too many egos, to much profit "managing" health care, excessive costs for schooling and a cliquish attitude from those in the "biz".
Anyway, you might look for the PBS show I mentioned - If you can stand the "screaming left-wing librul" viewpoint...
Dr K, that show was the source of much of my info. I linked it on April 17. Enigma, you can watch the whole thing or just pick a country & watch that portion. It profiles how 5 capitalist countries are handling their health care. PBS Frontline: Sick Around The World.
like everything else today the issue of Health care is purposely confused so the truth is not known until it is too late to do anything about it. i don't remember who it was but I think Obama who suggested everyone in the country being on the same program they are on and I don't see why not! Food, a roof, and medical care should be a basic goal for all citizens then they would build from there if they so desired.
Check this.
If the Borg Queen couldn't get Nat'l Healthcare passed in 1993 when her beard was president, what makes her think she can do the deed today at the height of a recession????
Sorry Hillbots, but Hillary is full of sheyat.
enigma
I don't get it! What I just said to you makes absolute sense and just thinking about it we do have food stamps and public Housing I just do not understand not health care. If keeping citizens alive, healthy, and happy was really the goal it only makes sense.
O/T
Enigma, et al,
As if we needed more proof of just how fucked up the United States is after 8 years of the Bush/Cheney junta, comes news that Nobel Peace prize winner, Nelson Mandela, is flagged on the U.S. terrorist watch list and requires special permission to visit the USA.
In 1990, Mandela was freed after 27 years in prison for crimes committed during the struggle against the apartheid regime of institutionalized racism that subjugated Black South Africans to second-class status.
In 1994, he was elected South Africa’s first black president.
Even Bush apologist, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called the situation “embarrassing,” and some members of Congress have vowed to fix this inequity.
Why do we never hear any senator or representative suggest americans get healthcare equal to what they have?
We elect these people and from the moment they are elected all they do is start campaigning for reelection.
Let these worthless fools start paying for their own healthcare,you'll then see how quickly all americans would be covered.
First off- you are don't even need me...you are carrying on a perfectly fine discussion ;-)
Cosmic:
yes....I think worthless fools says it all...if they had to pay they too would be broke like the rest of us- and SOME of them would be UNINSURED due to health problems - McCain for one...( Since Cancer, Melanoma is one of the red flag disorders...)
Christopher:
I am blogging on Mandela tonight...I was stunned....unreal....I am on a NO FLY list - so I know that it is REAL....But Mandela??? unreal....He is a living Legend...truly a great man....( if MLK were alive today he and Bobby Kennedy would both be on LISTS....Bush has many Enemy Lists...)
Patriot:
ahhhh what you said is so true...amazing how simple it is - isn't it ? It should not be this way....50 Million people told they are worthless in this Country...it ain't right...
Chris:
so she is full of poopoo ?ahhhhh
so is Bubba...
DK:
thank you for reminding people to watch the Frontline: Sick around the World ( I will post a link to it above..)
DRKNOW:
yup...those damn liberuls worrying about people dying without care- you and DK mentioned the Frontline issue...thank you....I will add to the post...
XDELL:
yup....she is way off the Principle Bus...she has thrown any integrity that she had under the bus....she is a repug in a pantsuit....
oh and the irony....the McSame was here today....in Cleveland Clinic ( maybe they will take a look at his tumor on the left side of his head...)......
and he was at a "town hall meeting" ( cough...) actually it was just an event for him- all preplanned....and scheduled....invite only scripted event...oye....
Jaajoe:
I am not sure about the article you linked....Any article that starts out "leftist anti war crowd" is offensive and considered right wing...I appreciate you trying to find an article about this....2002 is a long time ago- and alot has changed economically in this country- with millions more uninsured.....so I am not sure about the article at all...how relevant or accurate- I reccommend that you see the Frontline piece about Healthcare in other countries...it is really helpful...I will read again in am and see if I have a different take on it..
Hillary's health plan is essentially the same as the Swiss and Dutch health plans, which work very well. But the devil is in the details. The Swiss and Dutch health plans work because they very heavily regulate insurance companies. For-profit insurance companies are prohibited (all insurance companies must be mutual companies, i.e., owned by their rate-payers) because nobody should ever profit from someone else's health, and rates are heavily regulated to guarantee fairness and equity (the rate classes are very broad). It is prohibited to reject anybody for any reason, it is prohibited to drop insurance coverage of anyone for any reason (as long as they pay their insurance fees). And of course they do have the individual mandate in the Swiss and Dutch systems -- you must participate in either your employer's insurance pool, or in the government insurance pool if you're not employed. If you don't, you're forced into the government insurance pool via a penalty assessed against your wages.
So, unlike Obama's plan (which has a health care funding death spiral implicit in it that ends up with vastly more people uninsured), there's nothing *conceptually* wrong with Hillary's plan -- we have a model for how it actually works in real life (the Swiss and Dutch plans). Whether Hillary's health plan would actually be implemented as well as the Swiss or Dutch ones, or instead would simply be re-vamped into another profit line for the insurance companies... (shrug). Probably the latter. She's too bought by too many people. Not that it matters, since she is not going to become President.
- Badtux the Healthcare Penguin
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