Thursday, April 10, 2008

"KEEPING SWEET" AT THE YFZ COMPOUND: INVESTIGATING THE CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN AT THE YFZ COMPOUND IN TEXAS, VICTIMS OF RITUAL PEDOPHILIA AND INCEST

{originally posted 4.09.8, Please also read the Posts Below about Rituals and the Missing Girl}

11PM UPDATE: CULT IS NIGHTLINE TONIGHT, ALONG WITH INFO ABOUT THE TEMPLE BEDS AND THE ESCAPEES.
BREAKING NEWS 3:30 PM FRIDAY4.11.08 ( PRESS CONFERENCE PLANNED FOR 4PM):
MSNBC 3:30 PM announced that Cyanide Poisoning Documents were found amoung Papers removed from the Temple. Press Conference is planned to announce what was found in Compund and Temple.More will posted here , I will liveblog the Press Conference in the Comments of this Post. Press Conference was cut short by MSNBC.

BREAKING NEWS VERY LATE THURSDAY NIGHT 4.10.08 :::
Texas Friday AM Papers are reporting that Cadaver Dogs were taken to the Compound late Wed. ( This was after Beds and Shredded Documents were found at The Temple. ) The Missing Girl Sara has still not been identified or found. As a 16 yr old 8 monthes pregnant she should have been found in the 416 by now. From the Research assembled in the Posts below and do read the threads and the LINKED Titles, and due to the High Temp Furnace on Site, I hope the Authorities with The Dogs, do Check the Following Sites at the Compound:
(1) the Quarry
(2) The Cement Plant ( Take Ash Samples)
(3) Any New Cement Projects
(4) "The Potato Shed"
**************************************
As A Nurse that has Studied Community Health Forensics on a Large Scale, I have some Questions regarding the Investigation of the YFZ Compound. These Questions are Not Comfortable, and may seem Morbid but Someone Needs to ask them. ( I studied the Health of an entire Region in the Northwest of over 150,000 people ). These Questions are based on the Latest Updates of the past three days, read the four posts below, as well as Comment Threads and also check the Title Links. As a Nurse, I need to encourage that this Investigation is about Crimes against Children, this is not about Lifestyle or Relgion or Polygamous Relationships being judged. It is a Human Rights Issue. It is about Children in Danger.

(1) Pregnancy Infant and Obstetrical Care of the Women:
What are the Pregnancy Rates, especially amoung the teens, and WHO is providing their prenatal Care. What are the rates of PostPartum Infection, Complications, Death. What are the rates of Complications for the Infants: ICN /neonatal Complications, and yes Mortality. With Such High Rates of Inbreeding and Incest, this increases risks of Disabilities and Defects. Also are there STD records for these young teen mothers, or even risk records and pregnency records. Who provides care to the young mothers, are there Midwives on site ? If the young mothers collect Medicaid and get State Benifits there should be records of all of this. Health Records on the 416 and the 139 Mothers.

BUT THEY ALSO NEED RAPE KITS:
All the Minors that have been sexually violated should be treated as Rape Victims, that means Rape Exams need to be done to check for damage, trauma and infections and unknown pregnancy. This is a Compound Where Sexual Crimes were part of Daily Rituals.There were beds found on site at The Temple that were used for Rituals with Young Girls being raped, forced into Sex with Males over 17. ( DNA could possibly be obtained from the beds).

(2) There is an Incinerator (2700 Degree Furnace) on Site, see post below, these records must be checked, and the Incinerator dust must be Tested. ( Electric Company must have records and permits). Ash also could be used for the Cement Plant that is onsite as well. WHY is there an Incinerator connected to the Temple. Do the Members bury Family Members on site ( there should be records). It is assumed that they would not wish to be buried in a public cemetary, with Heathens. Who issues Death Certificates ? Is there a County Coronor or Medical Examiner that issues ?

(3) Records of Illnesses, Accidents and Disease. If they do practice Eugenics there should be meticulous records on all of this, especially the Birth Records. ( Jeffs was obcessed with Bloodlines- and "Pure Bloods", but there should still be records of Illnesses.) There is a KNOWN Inbreeding Disorder called Fumarase Deficiency that has already been identified in atleast 20 children in this Religion ( Mostly in the Arizona babies- it is a RARE disease only found due to Genetic Inbreeding, it causes Severe Defects and Damage at Birth, including Severe Mental Retardation, Hypotonia,seizures. It is in the Jeffs Bloodline, Sect.There should be records of their medical care and condition, and also they do have shortened lives, there should be records. According to the Escapee Blogs- Defective babies are smothered at Birth- if this is True- there must be a way to find out more about the demise of these afflicted infants.).

* Due to Abuse Concerns- there should also be XRays taken to track longterm abuse and damage on longbones and ribs.

(4) In the Aerial Photographes I have looked at - 5 years worth, there are no photos with children playing outside, especially Little Boys. There are photos showing the girls helping their mothers in the fields. But No Boys are seen at all. Susposedly the boys do help in the Quarry. Are there accident Reports. Has any Child Labor Specialists or labor Investigators ever gone to the site ?

(5) Elderly Care Records, and again Death Records and Certificates.

(6) Records and Permits for the Premises: the Quarry, the Cement Plant, all buildings, and roads and the Water and Sewage
(7) On Aerials there are Large Containers on site- are there records for the Semi's and the Containers ? What are they shipping?
There should be trucking records.
(8) Susposedly they raise "Mohair" at this Ranch, and tend Sheep, yet NONE of the Aerials Show a single sheep. There should be records of the "Sheep" and also for the Dairy with the Department of Agriculture.
(9) As Barlow has been named as the Attacker and Abuser of "Sara" the Missing Girl, HOW is he allowed to still live near children and on a Compound with Children. ?
(10) There should be records by Health Officials regarding Corporal Punishment and "Christian Disipline" , there are records showing a rise in Texas, from a division of the Human Rights Watch that monitors in Corporal Punishment. ( Local ER's should or might have Accident Reports and Injury Records- espeicially if they are of suspicion).
(11) And Last but not least- aren't the Marriage Records Public Record? and shouldn't they have age on them ( just like Birth Ceritficates ? ) Texas Government might also be complicit with this Cult, but the Records need to be studied by an Outside Independent Source.

These are just some of the Records and Reports that need further study. Let's Hope that they Authorities are Ascertaining much of this information, as the Children and women will not be willing to speak, but maybe the Records will give Helpful Information, that could best show WHAT is going on in regards to the Health, and Abuse of the Children.

It is Important that Texas do a thorough job investigating and protecting these Children, and it might indeed lead to the other Branchs and Sects being Investigated for Crimes Against Children.
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Three Documentaries that are worth Seeing, so we can self educate about this Pedophile Cult all on Youtube:
(1) "Banking on Heaven" ( about the Actual YFZ Compund- very compelling and disturbing.
(2) "Lifting the Veil"
(3) "Many Wives:Vows of Silence"
On another post I have linked the Aerial Footage of the Compound.
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Please do read the Three Other Posts Below, and do Check Links to the Titles.
I will update in the Comments Thread during the day.....Please do see Linked Videos about the Cult, the Aerials, and the Post below about the Missing Girl , and the Practices of Blood Atonement.

40 comments:

enigma4ever said...

Meredith interviews Mark Shurtleff on the today show ( the Utah Atty General) If any of us ever doubted that she is as dumb as a box of rocks- this show and HER questions show her stupidity....

Hence that is why I am trying to document and dig at this.....because the AM Twinkies won't and don't do it....

and maybe we should Hound the Media- I mean this potentially involves HOW many Children ???

enigma4ever said...

7:38 Am
"Sara Jessup" , the Missing Girl, made the calls, and is still missing, she was EIGHT monthes pregnant- just 16, and also delivered a baby girl when she was 15, that baby is now 8 monthes old. Many of the teenage Girls removed are pregnant or have been pregnant....this means that she was VERY pregnant when she was Beaten and Raped Easter Weekend.

the Compound's temple " the All Seeing Eye ( it is called) does have beds that were used- young girls were forced to have sex there- that would be RAPE.

( as it is is called All Seeing EYE Temple- I wonder if they have cameras or monitoring or tapes there ? it is a very odd name....)

enigma4ever said...

8am:
More Info:
(1) the All Seeing EYE is actually Masonic- but means that God sees all- but here is my theory- if Jessops is still viewed by them as the Prophet- that means they would have made tapes for him since he is in prison.
( Someone needs to find out)

(2) There are "Blood Atonement " rituals that are done on holidays ( ie Easter), Somehow they need to find out if that is What happened to Sara Jessop that weekend.....

Sewmouse said...

Enigma - in partial answer to one of your questions - the media has been careful to emphasize that these young teens were forced into "SPIRITUAL" marriage - one can only presume this would be in contrast to a "LEGAL" marriage.

In other words - a "marriage" that is recognized only by that "church", not by the state.

enigma4ever said...

Sewmouse:
About the "Spiritual Marriage" that term is used by the "leaders" and the Indoctrinated of this Sect- it is THEIR language- they are not legally recognized terms- but terms their members and girls recognize.

As a nurse I am focusing on the Damage ( psychological,physical and sexual) on these children- I am not blogging on ANY of the "marriage" issues ,It does not really matter in the long run, this is really about children that have have been sexually groomed and abused for generations....the YFZ Compund in particular was run with different orders and specifications by Jeffs.
( almost like a Eugenics Laboratory).

I am trying hard to blog and investigate the Child Abuse issues. I think the Media would be wise to Investigate the Abuse issues. I also realize that this is NOT a Normal Polygamous Group, this is no way a mere matter of Lifestyle or Marriage differences.
It is about Child Issues, Are there issues of Child Labor ? Brainwashing? Sexual Grooming? Molestation? Beatings? None of these fit into "Normal" Family Dynamics or Any sort of "marriage".

There is one thing about this that is interesting- when Jeffs set up the Compund in Texas the LAW for marriage at that time- over 5 years ago was that 14 year olds could get married without PERMISSION of Adults. THEN the law was changed because of his own crimes to 16. Like any true Pedophile, he was seeking a state that would allow his predatory illness to go unrecognized.

Either way- once girls develope there ( breasts and first menses) they are "given" to men in marriage and required to reproduce. There is NO consensual aspects to the "arranged "spiritual marriages" or the Forced Sex.

Now the other reason they are calling it "spiritual " marriages, they are not legally recognized. The girls are considered Single Moms- and they register for State Benifits that way, so they are indeed getting paid to be Baby Machines.It is indeed a Source of Income for the Compound.

For the Sake of 1000's these young children- we should hope and pray that their Care is investigated. ( the Court Papers are horrific)

The Girl Sara- the 16 year old was very very brave to call for help....Let's hope they find her and that she has not been beaten more, as she is 8 monthes pregnant.....

enigma4ever said...

Sidenote to Readers:
Yes I am blogging the hell out of this Situation, because it could easily slip below the fold and get ignored- it is too uncomfortable for all involved. I have been downloaded anything that will vansish in the next few weeks- photos, aerials, blogs etc.

The Sad thing is that the Tapes of Jeffs, the books, and the documentaries- already did sound the alarm- but they can not get enough media focus.

D.K. Raed said...

Enigma: warren jeffs was allowed to make tapes of his thoughts the whole time he was in UT prison. Now he is in AZ prison, so I don't know if they are allowing it.

Blood Atonement goes way back in mormon history. They first practiced it back in Missouri & Ohio. It means death, but the death is for sin (which could even be disagreeing with the prophet) & by being killed in this manner (slitting the throat), their sins are atoned & the sinner can enter heaven & be judged. There is a lot of historical material on mormon blood atonement. I can only guess the FLDS might've revived it because they have people causing them problems & this is their way of getting rid of them.

No birth, death, school, health, etc records for 75-yrs. Who know how many people have slipped through the cracks? Without records, they might as well be non-people. Nazis would be proud of them.

Re: The All Seeing Eye -- well, here is the military man's view ... husband took one look at the Eldorado temple & said "those turrets on each corner allow perfect fields of fire"!

Yes, it is uncomfortable, that's why blogging it is necessary. You are doing a great job!

Christopher said...

Why did it take those Texas asswipes years and years to bust this group of Christian child abusers?

Sorry, the so-called authorities can close down a pot club in 30 days but it takes 10 years for Texas to get their act together to rescue these children?

What am I missing here?

Gryphen said...

Wow Enigma you have really taken the ball and run with it over here!

I am absolutely amazed at the depth of your research and the questions that you have raised. Very well done! I just know that you are raising the awareness of everybody who visits here.

I was posting on this myself but I am going to just send people over here to read your information which is much more compelling and in depth.

You make us all proud kiddo. Keep up the good work.

enigma4ever said...

Update:
(1)So did read offline on Exmembers blogs - Jeffs does believe in Blood Atonement- and did wish to bring it back...that is concerning...Recommend people read on this...and yes it is about tradition of Sacrifice , blood letting.

(2) As part of this Concern- it was known that Jeffs had a HIGH temp furnace put in onsite- some say it was a crematorium, others say it was an incinerator- Some were consulted on the best Level of heat to expunge DNA- at that point some left the Special Projects team- BUT the "furnace was put in suposedly and does heat to 2700 degrees- There should be blueprints for this and also Energy Bills reflecting more on this. for MORE info on this- the blogs say to look for the POTATO SHED.

(3) According to EX Members-also there were BEDS and Computers IN THE TEMPLE. I do not know if Forensics has tested the beds and the Temple - Rangers are working with the FBI investigating the Temple and the site. ( MEdia is saying that the Investigation shut down this afternoon- locals watching do not verify this).

(4) A jack Hammer was also taken to The Temple, Some people speculate about WHY and what this would be used for, but if rituals were performed at the Temple, cement samples might be needed.

(5) Another part of research that I am still reading more on - FUMARASE DEFICIENCY this is a Disorder that causes severe defect, severe retardation and early death. This disease USED to be rare- only about 10 cases in the World- NOW in the past 5 years- the Numbers are growing within the Sect- over 20 KNOWN cases.

Jeffs have refused to acknowledge that this defect is caused by Inbreeding, intermarriage, or DNA patterns- 2 marry with the recessive genes- this does not happen in normal society. NOW the reason this is concerning , Jeffs was striving for a Blood Pure Sect. How many of the Defective babies are being cared for ? or are they being elmiated and murdered ? the Site NEEDS to be checked for a Baby Burial Ground.

(6) Flora Jessop is the main person being interviewed about this Sect, on numerous shows. tonight she is on Nancy Grace ( definently more educational about this -than Campbell Brown) . She has been good explaining that this ia WHITE SLAVERY CULTURE.

(7) Barlow - the Accused Abuser of the Missing 16 yr old Sara , suposedly lives NOW in Arizona- but still has to check in with his Parole Officer in St George Utah.

****************
Christopher:
I have NO explanation for this huge Criminal Compound being allowed to flourish- I do think that the Location and Isolation played a part- and that the Local Law Enforcement and Authorities might indeed be infiltrated with Male Members- that is there normal trend....BUT it is unexcusable ???? and Shame on them.

I also suspect since Jeffs is worth 400 Million dollars I would say that People are paid off ?

I hope and pray that the Authorities NOW do right by these children and esp the young girls- I would hate to see them returned to this Giant Pedophile Concentration Camp.... that poor girl- 8 Monthes pregnant still has not been located.


DK :
(1) the Seeing EYE Temple- ironically it is based on the Masonic Symbol....But It is about God Seeing ALL- but in this case that means JEFFs- since he is viewed as the God- the Prophet...that means that HE sees all- and Knowing that Computers were IN the Temple- I would say that records were kept for him.

I am a little confused as to Records- HOW can they collect Fed Monies without Records ?

Thanks - I am trying to blog what I find- whether it be a shocking or sad- we ALL need to know about this....thousands of children are at risk.

Blueberry said...

as for why the law didn't go in earlier, they wanted to make sure there would be evidence that would hold up in court. also, nobody wants another Waco/Branch Davidian or Jim Jones event to occur, where there is mass death.

enigma4ever said...

Blueberry:
I wrote in the post below- that I do think that WACO has left the Authorities unable to handle this type of situation well....I think what you said is true too- that when a Secetive Cult isolated people it is very hard to have a case with "Probable Cause" , they need Probable Cause to gain accees to the premises, I don't know what the laws are in Texas in regards to Child Endangerment Investigations....

When they interviewed the El Dorado Mayor- his level of "Concern" was concerning. According to "Banking on Heaven " Documentary- the Jeffs Sect is worth about 400 Million, and I think that aspect needs to be inspected closer- were any officials paid to look the other way ?

ABout the "mass Death" issue- if an High temp Incinerator, Crematorium was put onsite, near the Temple- which is susposedly there- then the Mass Death Issue is Still very much a Concern.... Please do read the post below about Jeffs Support of Blood Atonement and more about the Furnace.

The Investigators have 30 days to investigate and build a case....and hopefully they will find the Missing "Sara"....safe and sound.

enigma4ever said...

Gryphen:
Thank you for your praise..wow....I am very moved by this case- and I have good Investigative skills, that are good for Human Rights Cases of this size.....BUT the bigger issue, this case could easily fall below the fold, which is my worry, and while the Missing Girl Sara is Missing, and while there are only 30 days to dig at this- I will Dig....

( My numbers are through the roof- so that means the word is spreading on This Case., I moved it to the top today because the MSM said that the Investigation onsite at the YFZ had closed?...there are lives at stake- hundreds, possibley thousands....as there are 40,000 in this "Religion", if we as Bloggers can help....we need to...I will be honest , once I found the Escapee blogs- it broke my heart....be sure to click the Links- there is much good info. )

thanks again- and yes, by all means send folks here- we need to help these Victims....We can not let this Criminal Investigation go dark.

BadTux said...

While you are looking at the Texas authorities and asking "Where were they?", you need to take a *LONG* look at Arizona authorities and ask "Where were THEY?!". Specifically, Governor Janet Napolitano of Arizona, who, while she was attorney general, *refused* to investigate allegations of ritual child abuse ("temple marriages") and such, despite story after story in the Phoenix New Times and Arizona Republic about the evil things that were happening in Arizona City. It was not until Mojave County filed charges and the Utah authorities became embarassed by this slur upon the Morman faith due to all those stories in the Arizona media that Utah filed charges and eventually took Jeffs into custody, and it was not until the facts of the Utah investigation came out that Arizona *finally* charged Jeffs themselves.

Regarding record-keeping: I suspect the cult did file a certificate of home birth with the birth registrar for whatever state they were in, and dutifully applied for social security numbers for the kids. But it's possible they did not. I was the student information officer for a coalition of school districts for a number of years. One of the recurring issues we had was reconciling the school lunch and enrollment records. The USDA would send us a list of students living in our district who were eligible for free school lunch based on food stamp records every semester, and we had to reconcile that against our list of students actually enrolled and divvy up the list by school. Now, our enrollment officers were always careful about getting the right social security # etc. for our students because that was used as the state ID and if didn't match, then we'd not get paid for them. But I estimate that approximately 20% of the SSN's we got from the Food Stamp people were *wrong*. I asked the Free Lunch people what the deal was, they shrugged and said, "Momma couldn't remember the kid's number or just invented one, they [the USDA] never check." Crap, even the *BIRTH DATE* was often wrong. We required a birth certificate for enrollment so we knew damn well we had the correct birth date on file, but the federal agencies responsible for aid to children either have one helluva lot of keypunch errors, or they simply didn't ask for birth certificates and SS cards and such...

In short, there's a lot of sloppiness that goes on around aid for children, with a lot of winking and nodding too, and it wouldn't surprise me if these folks used false papers to apply for assistance -- and got it.

-Badtux the Data Penguin

enigma4ever said...

Badtux:
I am mostly trying to ask Good Questions and investigate as much as I can.....it is a Pandoras Box....that has been too locked..too long...I believe that if we all think on this and keep it in the news - we will help those children and women....I hope...and you are right - there are alot of States to Blame and Involved in the Coverup of this Pedophile Cult- and I will call it that- as that is what it is-

Sadly the Money End of this won't be easy to sort- even though it should be easier- than it is- but ALL the issues you raised are ALL true...pathetic as that is....and Your Own Experiences show what a mess this can be- and how vulnerable Children can be lost in the Process....

Thanks for your thoughts....

enigma4ever said...

*** IMP:
Texas Papers are reporting that Cadaver Dogs were brought to the site today.

enigma4ever said...

IMPORTANT....I HOPE THEY THINK TO TAKE THE CADAVER DOGS TO THE QUARRY AND ALSO TO THE CEMENT PLANT.....

( I will try to learn more- I don't think WHERE the dogs have checked will be made public)

BadTux said...

Oh man. I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means. That poor girl. Man.

enigma4ever said...

Badtux:
Please do read the Post below and watch the Linked Video- about Blood Atonement- this is a very serious issue- Jeffs also is a Stong Believer in this-

That poor Girl was indeed in Danger....Grave Danger...

( as are the Children)

The Horrible thing is this- Blood Atonement is also a Way of Silencing Hundreds- and FEARMONGERING .... NO ONE will speak if she was murdered...No One...and considering there was a HIGH temp Furnace put on site- there indeed Might be others that have dissappeared....

I am trying to carefully Blog about this....and not create Panic- but to educate and allow insights- but I fear that Like Jim Jones , we are witnessing a Scene of a Horrific Crime Cult....and we need to keep these women and Children in out thoughts and pray that the MEdia DOES keep this Investigation in the Spotlight.....Potentially thousands are involved...

It is up to us as Bloggers to help educate and spread the word....thank you....

and yes, Pray for "Sara" that she is safe and sound....but I like many others...are worried...very very worried....

David G said...

Hey, Enigma, you're really fired up, gal! All religions exploit people. Always have. Some do it in deviant ways but they all do it.

The world would be better off without religion of any kind. Peace would stand a better chance too!

Take care.

enigma4ever said...

David:

You say I am "fired up " ? NO as a Mother , a RN, a Person, I am Outraged- as we all should be.....We don't need any more OStriches here in the States- that is HOW these Children ended up in Harms' Way...

This is not a "Religous matter", it is a Human Rights Issue, it is a Matter where Hundreds of Children have Criminally Hurt, Damaged....and maybe worse....
( if you read all that I have investigated- this is a Compound run like Aushwitz- the children not allowed to laugh, play, sex and food and mind control used by the men to control ALL activities...and also very much a work Camp- boys working the Quarry ?)

Pedophiles for many years have found ways to exploit and abuse Chidren....that is only a piece of THIS Cult....there is a big difference between a Cult and Real Religion.....( when was the last time we heard about BEDS found in a Temple ? That has Sacrifice and an Incinerator as Part of "Religous" Rituals....)

This is worse than Jim Jones- and we all remember HOW that ended .....I know it was many years ago...

This is worth Invesigating and Sharing and Dialoguing - LIVES are at stake---very vulnerable- mind controlled , damaged lives.....thousands...

thanks....read below...carefullly- then you will understand better...take the time....this is an Historic Horror.....of saddening proportions.....heartbreaking......

enigma4ever said...

MORE INFORMATION:
(1) Please do go to SMOKING GUN and read the 5 page warrant- it is illuminating and worth reading. Explains that there are Multiple Beds on Temple Site- ( 3rd Floor of Temple) that the Temple and the Annex also contain many computers and disks etc...... ((( I am still wondering if they Document everything for Jeffs- and if they record everything and save on Computers- and worse- do they put over the Internet. I only mention it because the same weekend that this broke there was a huge Internet Porn Bust in Texas- maybe just a coincidence ? But WHY would a religous sect NEEd so many computers in their Temple ?)

WHY would they need BEDS on the 3rd Floor ?

please do read the Warrant- it is 5 pages....the Leaders had told the Authorities that there were about 200 children-
instead the numbers are staggering-
men maybe up to 70,
Children 416 ( still the Question is HOW many Boys and Girls ?)
Women that left the Compound 138-170.

HOW Many of the girls, underage are pregnant or have infants and babies ? That will need to be learned...according to an ACLU blog...they are now getting medical care. The Warrant did request Samples of hair- all, buccal ( that would be DNA), and fluids....as well as access to ALL records from the Site.

Gryphen said...

Hey Enigma, i just saw on MSNBC that the authorities had somebody undercover in the compound for FOUR YEARS!

I have no idea why it would take anywhere near that much time to build a case, or how they could allow these children to be brutalized for so long since they MUST have known it was happening!

You keep up the good work. I will send you anything new that I stumble across.

I want these assholes brought to justice in the worst way.

enigma4ever said...

Gryphen:
I had heard that too, heard that the authorities had a contact within the compound ( my sense was that the person was a male ? not a woman ....)I felt like they were "using" that as a Defense , like 'we had our eye on this". But also that no one was checking on the welfare of the women and children ( the numbers on this are staggering- HOW could that few men produce that many children ?)

Now on another level- I hope that there is Enough evidence to Build the Case- the fact that they had time to shred documents and hide materials is disturbing- and the Warrant was actually written last weekend...but it took them days to get into the Temple....

I am glad that the Rangers are working the Case- not the Local Authoritities- they also must have brought The FBI in....

I am still concerned that the susposedly the Search at the Compound is over ?

( The Media should have dissended like Locusts- instead they handled it like Gran-ma;'s China....this story requires journalistic courage)

What pissed me off was the Mayor of the town- he seemed so Non Plussed- Some one needs to LOOK REAL hard at his Bank Records....

enigma4ever said...

Article in Paper:
Cyanide Poisoning Documents were removed, as well as Hand and Fingerprint documents, as well as documents, photos etc related to a BIRTHING ROOM ON SITE..

PRESS Conference 4pm:
Judge has ordered that the Children remain in custody until after April 17th Hearing. Kevin Denin is now speaking about the Children and their care in the Shelters.....( the Same people running the Shelters and managing the care- were also involved with Caring for the Katrina Survivors in 2005).

By 4:11 PM MSNBC cut away

an average patriot said...

It doesn't look good for the girl that's for sure. I watched an interview of women from another cult that was broke up in 1956 I believe it was.
The little girls were all taken and they tried to reintroduce them to society. they all went back when they could and live under the same husband by choice. I find it very confusing wanting to share the love of your life.
Anyway an adult having sex with a kid is sick! I hope those girls are okay and they find that girl alive though I would be like you say, looking for DNA evidence and not just in the obvious places. Could it have been a call by one of them who just wanted the place broken up and their was no pregnant girl that called?

enigma4ever said...

JIM:::
So true...all of this is so disturbing...as a parent I think you see this the way I do....It certainly is not about "marriage" is it? And yes, I think at this point, all that they are looking for is worrisome...I am worried about "Sara"...

I think she is very much real, or was real when she made the Calls, the Smoking Gun Document explains alot- the 5 page warrant...And there are birth records on site at the temple- so it should be fairly do-able to find her records- or atleast the birth of her daughter last year....
( although due to the High Numbers of Children and babies and young girls I could see where that made things very complicated....)

an average patriot said...

It is very sick! I can not even comprehend harming a child or taking away their childhood and innocence. Guarding that is and always has been my goal and selfish pleasure!

enigma4ever said...

The press Conference was cut off, and we did not get to hear WHAT was in the Documents...but Cyanide is kind of a Concern ( anyone that remembers Jim Jones Koolaid would of course worry.) I missed the National News so I don't know if more was released on this ....

Patriot:
the bottem line is that this hopefully the Media will report the findings of the Rangers and the FBI ....
My biggest concern is that after the Hearing on the 17th they will be returned to the Compound....
( I am sure you are a wonderful caring father...sadly this situation is about a Criminal giving orders, it is about Mind Control....it is a cult...that has damaged many young lives....)

enigma4ever said...

4.11.08 NIGHTLINE UPDATE:::
"Keeping Sweet" is about keeping slient, sweet, NO obedience problems, behave.

Warren Jeffs- was an accountant ( that is interesting). He changed and imposed alot of different rules, from colors of clothes to rules about radio , TV. Sam Brower an investigator pointed out that the Young Girls started to come when he came into power- Warren started building fences, and picking ones to come to YFZ.

( there are 5 other compounds- with Jeffs Elders in charge- if they prove their worth to the prophet, they can move to Eldorado. Child Brides were taken to the temple and deflowered.

Carolyn Jessop an Escapee has gone to Texas to help with Case...she explained how the children are brainwashed.

Nightline explaine that multiple states are involved- NM, North Dakota, Colorado, Arizona, and Nevada, Arizona....( up to 40,000 people) so we as a Country should realize that this is not just Texas 's problem....

Good show...Hopefully Other News Shows have crews down there...

an average patriot said...

Thank you enigma and I know! I know the same applies to you! I was thinking of you this morning and something right up your alley if you wanted to do a follow up on this.
First, I am afraid they will let them back in that compound but should not period until the issue of the girl is solved. That is only common sense to me and then take it from there, closely!
Anyway I have a couple issues I had to resolve so I haven't checked sources yet but I heard this morning when the radio went on that today is Womans Day or something and Women and children's rights should be concentrated on' If I find any stories I will send you the link! Take care,

enigma4ever said...

Thank Patriot:
I do think that the Women and Children are vulnerable....the Hearing on Thursday will decide their fate...sadly...I do think the fact that they have not found her is very concerning....the Document that lists what was removed from the compound is over 80 pages long....so hopefully the evidence will be substantial for another 30 days, the fact that the children were assigned Guardian Ad Litems immediately is important.....

I did read an article last night that Governor Perry's office has said that they will find the money to care for these women and children - 25000-60000 /day...that they are committed to making sure they are cared for......( that to me sounds like a long term committment).

Have a good weekend Patriot....

Dr. Know said...

These sick fucks should be placed into their oven while the heat is slowly raised over a period of days until they are ash. Excuse my foul language, but this is absolutely deranged, and even more so considering the foreknowledge it seems many people had of this compound and the goings on within. The depths to which segments of the human race explores makes me absolutely livid sometimes. Texas, bah.

I know this has to be absolutely heartbeaking for you - please don't overdo it and end up utterly jaundiced.

enigma4ever said...

I am fine DrKnow...
I am good at digging at things that are wretched and horrible....

Just worried that this case will drop out of the Headlines...and that those children will be lost in the shuffle...really sad...

thepoetryman said...

"there is a big difference between a Cult and Real Religion"

Actually the definition doesn't at all make that much of a distinction between the two. -
Some anthropologists and sociologists studying cults have argued that no one has yet been able to define “cult” in a way that enables the term to identify only groups that have been identified as problematic. However, without the "problematic" concern, scientific criteria of characteristics attributed to cults do exist.
A little-known example is the Alexander and Rollins, 1984, scientific study concluding that the socially well-received group Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult by using the model of Lifton's thought reform techniques and applying those to AA group’s indoctrination methodology.

Even though the elements exist, several researchers pointed out the benefit of the organization. Vaillant, 2005, concluded that AA is beneficial.


How many churches, religious institutions fit that bill?

I would say that religion certainly is in the mix here. It is the "religious" fundamentals of this and its overtones. I do understand when you say it is not about religion, but I would say it is certainly a factor.

I don't believe we should do away with religion for that is a basic right to believe in anything we see fit, of course one doesn't need religion to believe, but once enough people believe in the same thing- Bam! Religion rears its often ugly head.

It is also, more so in my opinion, a basic right to be free to think on our own without the horrid results of indoctrination into one and only one way of thinking.

This tragedy will haunt many a child, young and older women. The psychological damage must be extreme. The damage to body and mind are the most prevelant of injuries, leaving little doubt to their far-reaching consequences.

The reaction by the authorities seems a bit slow and rathere odd considering there was an informant on the inside.

Great energy with this story my friend. My muse, not exactly sure why, has been relatively quite on this subject. I think she may be in some very sever pain over it and is waiting to calm down before she attempts to lift my hand to it.

enigma4ever said...

Poetry Man_
my friend- I need to say when I have been so careful about focusing on the ABUSE part, the Criminal Parts of this- it is because I don't believe in attacking a religion- even one that I don't fully comprehend....or understand...So I won't - not in my posts ever attack something I don't understand...it is not my right- and really not the part of the story that NEEDS focus right now. ( yes, the Media and FOX would love to see us all fighting over religion).So that is why I have blogged it this way- I have blogged it seperately from the religous aspects- I hope that makes sense...it was to in no way diminish that the religion is involved .....

I am worried that they are shielded from Investigation and Proper Digging BECAUSE of "their religion"...and that for over 50 years they have used that to exploit more women and children...and that worries me- Britty and her undies get better coverage ( and more) than this story did, yet hundreds of children are in danger....and that bothers me...

When I originally started investigating and writing on this, I thought it was the Story of ONE pedophile- it rapidly turned into something much much darker....there are NO muses for this kind of Darkness- so I did the best I could to blog the Human Rights Aspects...Child Labor, the Incinerator (?), etc etc...instead of Answers I only found worse questions ( ie Where are the Defective Children?) .....

So please know this I never intended to diminish or quell any of the religous aspects- I was merely trying to focus on the Criminal aspects. In many ways I have tried to find another religion, or culture that embraced Pedophilia, and I have not been able to....

thanks for your patience as I blogged this in such detail....

thepoetryman said...

I understand why you are blogging it the way you have, my friend. I was just making a point of the one comment about religion. I was not attempting to conflate the two. I certainly understand the need to do so.

Peace.

Tracy said...

Um..they say it was a phony call. So, how does that impact things?

That may mean no "Sara" to look for.

I think something bad (like molestation, statutory rape, rape) happened there, but how can that be proven.

What kind of case can be made? So far the info that is coming out on this particular sect probably doesn't meet the standard for removing the children, so they will be going back is my bet, b/c TX judges routinely send abused children back to their parents to be killed even.

I will say that someone close to the kids since the raid leaked that these kids won't be going home and that they will be put for adoption. I don't think they should have leaked that. They said these kids were severely abused (but did not elaborate on what that meant). So, I'm still waiting to hear what they will say happened to the kids (right now it seems it's in the suspecting abuse stage).

The thing that bothers me about this, even though I believe to my core (esp. b/c Jeffs is involved) that there is abuse, is that if there is only suspected abuse and not witnesses to abuse and not evidence then this could set bad presidence for parental rights (we'll just leave it at parental rights, but we could expand it even farther to religious, but I feel that is a veil some are hiding behind and that has to be pierced when necessary).

So, how does one protect the kids and also ensure that Texans/Americans preserve their own civil rights?

I really hope that the authorities find out what was going on there. People are free to live their lives in secret communities, and have whatever strange unions they want, but if the children are being used as income, sex slaves, or molested that is completely different.

I saw the thing that said some in a similar sect as this one they killed their deformed babies and that is really sad. I hope the authorities look for evidence of that.

The whole thing worries me b/c I think they won't handle it right and it will 1)chip away at our rights and 2) leave the kids unprotected if they did not do a good job of proving the abuse.

I'm hoping more details about this particular sect comes to light. Also, I am not of the mind to think the women are innocent as some of you. If in fact these children are abused I hold the women responsible too. It would be so in mainstream society if a mom allowed abuse and it should be so for them (brainwashed is not defensible).

enigma4ever said...

I appreciate your concerns, I am hoping to update this story or write more posts on this.....I do think that maybe the Rosita woman made one call after the calls were made- I am not sure of the original source of the call (s). The original calls that were made were made by a young woman- and not all the calls match her numbers or voice. BUT sadly there were 4 "Sarahs" removed that are pregnant or were pregnant- so that makes the case even more complicated.

Due to Blood Atonement issues there also might be aproblem indentifying her- ever....for the safety of her and her family.

NOW about Discovery- the Rangers found plenty so the original calls will not be as important - because Discovery did indeed reveal that there was underage sex, and forced sex, and that sexual acts occurred at the Church- these initial findings means that the Rangers can proceed to give information discovered to the State- and the State did indeed have enough grounds to remove the children.

The Sect Women and Men and Children all also inhibited the case, obstructing willfully, by refusing to even give their names and ages....forcing DNA to be used for basic ID. *( due to the false names it would have also been illegal to return the children to ????Who ...)

For the Children to be removed for another 30-60days for the time needed to investigate, Some pretty hard evidence had to be presented- and the Public has not been made aware. Physicals were done on the children and there are many questions about the care of the children. The Mothers are also responsible for the children and any abuse that was suffered....and that they themselves were part of the coaching with the Cellphones- People investigated then did witness the Mind Control that was going on and obstructing care...and the investigation...

If there has been patterns of abuse found, and pedophilia found...or other criminal charges ( ie child endangerment) the mothers could also be facing charges....

I am still unclear WHY the mothers returned to the Compound - they must have known that would not help them keep their children......

the mothers appear as damaged, mentally and emotionally- so that they might not provide proper care...They asked the mothers WHAT they taught the children- and they said "Keeping clean"....ouch..

Also the environment....impoverished for the children....no games, books, toys...or even a bike or a swing....so sad.no laughter allowed...

Child labor used on the compound, the Cement plant, the Quarry, and the buildings, and also in the fields....

In hope and pray that the siblings can be kept together and that they can experience real Childhood experiences in their new settings....

More to come when the next hearing is held...
But you are right MORE needs to be learned about this Cult....

Tracy thank you for your thoughts.

cing said...
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