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Still waiting for the Congress and Senate to Work the Bailout Details out....Click the title to read the Entire Current Proposal as of 5PM Sunday there is a "tenative " agreement....Still very unclear When the Vote will occur and if this Plan is Being Agreed to ...Caucusing right now...Watch the Asian markets tonight....This bailout is also about our futures, school loans, and home loans, and mortgages and retirement accounts and funds...It is too late to protect us as Mainstreet- we already are vulnerable....The Unraveling has already started, at this point it is about protecting us further.There are NO Good solutions at this point...It's like asking a Fireman how you want to throw water on the fire ? Big Buckets or a hose ?
This Plan effects all of us...and the Repugs of the House are NOT looking out for you and me they are looking out for Wallstreet trying to buy them Time and a "Insurance " plan ( that would be like people of the 9th ward being Offered Flood Insurance August 29th , 2005......if you get my point..) They also have Lobbyists to make happy, they don't want Regulations and Oversight and Investigations and Monitoring....I will post updates through the Night, but Huffpost really is doing a good job, but I will add updates from Reuters, WSJ and Bloomberg....
*** Click the Title for More Information and IT DOES LINK TO HUFFPOST AND THE ACTUAL 130 PG PROPOSAL, BUT IS NOT DOWNLOADABLE- BUT IT DOES LINK- DO ENLARGE TO FULL SCREEN TO READ BETTER....****
*****Large European Bank Fails : Fortis....more to come. More on on Fortis...and their bailout.
*** I am still looking back through my posts for the Link to the 32 Page Dodd Plan- if anyone has it please leave it on the Comment thread- thanks..
***** More about effects on World Markets and banks abroad as of 9.28.08
Another Bank in Trouble- Britian's Biggest Lender...critical.
And More about Wachovia which is noew facing being bought out...
9:30PM two links to try to read the Bailout Huffpost one is 130pgs...and the Politico is 106 ?
the first version, and the
Huffpost version is longer.
12:30 AM HOUSE HEARINGS ON THE BAILOUT BILL ON CSPAN......interesting...Slaughter, Dreier, and now Kaptur speaking...
26 comments:
I have a really dumb question..
What if the Mortgages that are securing the the Credit- are worthless....totally...then the Repug idea is a joke- because it would be like insuring a burned out house ? right ?
and also means that the 750 Billion is beyond inflated ????
and why can't it be paid in installments ???over time to monitor and regulate the progress and with alot of oversight ???
60 Minutes:::
60 Minutes Paulson is being interviewed...Scott Pelley.
"fragile situation" " US treasury bills trading under 1 %"
( geesus..)
I will try to find the 32 Page Dodd Document- and see if what he had in the original proposal are this NEW document...
( I could not find the part about the
(1) Cancelled Golden parachutes
(2) Protection for homeowners
(3) installment plan and parameters
(4) WHO will supervise and monitor
The thing I worry about is the anti trust factor. JP Morgan Chase have assimilated a few other businesses, including WAMU. Will we wind up with only a handful of banking options, if that & then what if they fail?Bank as we offer it or... you have no other options.
These "saviors" of other banks may turn into monopolies. Plus do any of us believe really that the FDIC insured $$$ is really insured. Maybe the fact Bush brought it up makes me more worried.... he;s telling us it's never lost any money-- just before the big collapse. Ugh! If HE says it;s good-- it must be bad or on unstable ground.
Sure it's never failed before-- but neither has the entire economy-- before HIS presidency.
Whatever Bush thinks is good, usually turns out to be really bad. If you added up all the $$ that FDIC is supposed to insure, there is just no way the Federal government could insure it... seriously.... this is a fairy tale. My bs-o-meter is in the red zone.
Is this teh document you are looking for?
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_ayo08b28.html
While the Treasury would receive much of the authority that it wants to buy up distressed assets, Dodd's add-ons have many of the populist ideas that will appeal to skeptical Democrats. His plan is also broader than the one unveiled by House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), so there will be significant negotiations in the days ahead between the House and Senate if Congress is to pass a bill by the end of the week.
Among the major provisions Dodd is adding:
* Authority for bankruptcy judges to restructure mortgages for homeowners facing foreclosure. This was considered a poison pill in a housing bill that passed Congress earlier this summer, but it has gained much more currency now that Washington wants to bail out Wall Street.
* A provision that would require the Treasury to take a 65 percent portion of 20 percent any profits it makes from the newly purchased assets and put it into the federal government's HOPE program, an affordable housing program.
* An oversight board that not only includes the chairman of the Federal Reserve and the SEC, but congressionally appointed, non-governmental officials.
* Limits on executive compensation. This is a major stumbling point for Paulson in his negotiations with Congress, but cracking down on Wall Street executive salaries will be a major selling point for lawmakers. Dodd and Frank have put in place what's known as a "claw back" provision aimed at revoking compensation that executives received based on fraudulent claims.
* An independent inspector general to investigate the Treasury asset program, appointed by the president.
The 3 page original $700 billion bailout document is now 106 pages....
linked here
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/700_billion_106_pages.html
Thanks Fran::
I put two versions up....I am still worried...but I will read it tonight...
( I still have this feeling the Repugs and McCoot are going to sabotage it - or already have....I did read Dodds version ....and was impressed...)
I do take some comfort in knowing the 2.5 page, total immunity, skate free scheme was axed. Nice try Paulson. I'd heard some are calling for his firing..... he was supposed to have a clue about how things were going- and the nerve to ask for $700 billion & immunity does seem awful unprofessional.
One friend (an avid news junkie), said from all the different angles she's listened to, she came up with this summary:
But it does seem to boil down to : no one knows how big this mess will turn out to be. One person believes it could involve 3 times the actual
amount of money on earth - due to the complicated leveraging. A big factor in the bailout is the worry that the foreign banks will stop lending us
more money - and demand to be repaid.
One financial "expert" I heard on Wed, night compared the situation to a
cartoon of a car speeding toward the edge of a cliff. The driver knows it is useless to apply the brakes, so he floors the gas peddle so that his
car is propelled out into the air - giving him a few more seconds to live before his car drops down.
He compares that to the bailout. We are pumping in all this money - which we don't have - in order to postpone the inevitable "day of reckoning".
Some theories are that the bushies are pushing this to prevent a depression before the election. It could have been postponed a bit longer
but the foreclosures started happening too fast - and too many. The financial investment system was so fragile and had been pushed to the
maximum limit - so the foreclosures - worldwide - set the house of cards tumbling.
My personal opinion is we may as well let the shit hit the fan now - and
get it over with. In the meantime, use whatever funds we can on creating
jobs and work projects here.
Hopefully the people will see just how badly the Bush/repugs have screwed up yet another thing & it will help the Obama camp.
There you have it-- the Thelma & Louise story of the US economy..... over the cliff we gooooooo
Unfortunately from what I have read there was too much ready to fall....including retirement , penion plans and loan plans for the people that were IKE'd....and more...and also globally the ramifications have already started...
Everyone KNOWs that it was Bush in charge of the piggybank...I thought alot about how all of these people stood out in the rain to hear Obama this weekend...because they want to hear Some Solutions...
There are no dumb questions.
Junk mortgages are exactly what will be sent into the federal bailout program. Does anyone think any mortgage investor is gonna take pennies on the dollar for a sound mortgage portfolio?
Junk mortgages are still secured with a house, though if the mortgagee is unemployed or facing bankruptcy for other causes, they won't be bailed out. Their house will be sold at auction. Expect housing prices to plummet which will further depress the whole economy. And how'd you like to be the guy who was foreclosed on last week & is now out on the street, but next week his former neighbor gets bailed out? Is he gonna be able to contain your rage?
There will never be any "profit" (who are they kidding?), therefore the taxpayer will never recoup anything more than a small bone thrown to them in 2012 (next election). I'd love to eat my words about that.
$700Billion is just the beginning. You know it will cost much more than that, especially if they can keep reborrowing until they've totally bled the turnip dry. Grandma Millie has to eat catfood because Fatcat Jones got caught standing in a musical chair game of toxic mortgages.
I guess our "fantastic free market wonder of the world" wasn't all it was cracked up to be. If so, we need to own up to that & embrace more regulation & more consumer protection & possibly even agree that some sectors of the economy work better if they are nationalized ... or is that a bad word?
ps, I will try to read the bailout plan tomorrow ... which is more than John McCain will do ... guy couldn't even read 3-pgs, how'd he gonna handle 100?!!
DK::
yeah we should check how FORTIS did it...sigh..
CSPAN is showing the house is already debating the Package...at MN
....Slaughter is speaking she just mentioned half of what you said above ( pretty wise)...
I read it..I read Dodd's Plan- the 32 pager- I liked that better..
Anyways...
we will see what happens next...
9000 homes going under a day...don't they KNOW that we KNOW how bad this is????
Oh good, I'll turn on C-Span for awhile. I was watching biz news earlier. The asian markets don't seem impressed. The pundit said they're in a holding pattern ... if we don't come through, they will tank. He actually said "tank"!
And yeah FORTIS -- govt took a 49% ownership position to bail them out. That is a pretty good deal, I think. Wall Street would probably shit a brick if they thought we'd bail them out that way. Too bad -- they need some tough love!
DK::
they need ALOT of tough love...yeah...I found out that the asian markets are not convinced..well- let's be real- every other day they have heard that we are working for and on this..
Yet in the meantime there have been repercussions....
yeah I am watching cspan..
yeah, the repug are blaming the families...I knew they would yeah, blame the families that lose their homes..and what the hell is Dreier talking about ACORN is not getting a thing- I thought acorn did good work ???
( now they are saying their are trying to perserve te free market..and that our regs were antiquated..what a bunch of crap...the markets did not fail because of REGS !!!- the failed because they were dereg'd...blah blah ....okay Dreier spoke..
and now Kaptur...is standing speaking she is a Dem from Ohio ( but very conservative...and not always right.. she is saying that this is not as bad as teh 80's...ah hello- this Collapse is being compared to the 30's....)
MsJackson Lee is speaking...and is saying that the Homeowners will not be protected well enough- shit- I thought they were going to protected...What happened...WHY aren't the Mainstreet people not protected...
she says there are NO checks and Balances and monitoring....
Kucinich...
Not impressed NO Oversight..and no monitoring..and which regs which were removed need to be put back...
We could have been given alternatives...it does not help the people....he is pissed off...hmmm....
Kucinich...
Americans will still have no healthcare, and no bankruptcy protection due to no healthcare..and NO home protection..
More Denis:::
As a Child in Cleveland I learned:
" If you dig a Hole Deep enough - you get to China...
Well, we are THERE"....
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Brad Sherman of Cali...
Said that the Golden Parachutes will not be limited...they will still be getting their huge million dollar salaries....he said we are not going to get recouped for this money....Not impressed with this bill..
okay..so far listening to this..
Kaptur - NO.?
Denis - NO?
Slaughter- I think is postive
Dreier-YES
Jackson Lee: NO?
( they did not announce their votes- just expressed concerns..)
The legislation is available in a better format with ability to comment on specific sections at http://www.publicmarkup.org/bill/emergency-economic-stabilization-act-2008/.
Please invite your readers to come over. The Sunlight Foundation will make sure comments get delivered to Congress.
I thought Sherman made good points about big investment banks being let off the hook, how they won't be around when payback time comes in 2011 ... how they will use tricks of the trade to close up, change names, move shop, let their charters expire, whatever it takes so they won't have to pay any of the fees/special levies being discussed. He said to expect a rush to decharter in 2011. So all the smaller banks, community banks, little credit unions will be stuck -- which of course will be passed on to the bank customers. Dreier hates Sherman. Dreier seemed a bit chagrined at the end when his amendment was tabled (at least I think it was tabled, C-Span ended coverage quite abruptly).
Another FORTIS note: the Belgium govt agreed to insure all RETAIL consumer deposits. hmmmm, so they did NOT agree to insure business or institutional deposits ... interesting.
What about the FBI investigations of fraud? We briefly heard about that & then the story seemed to evaporate.....
Obviously something or a series of questionable somethings happened or we would not be in this $700 billion crisis. It did not just happen overnight.
Hi Enigma,
You ask, "What if the mortgages securing the bailout are worthless?"
The Asian markets remain flat, Europe is in recession, and the worth of real estate is tumbling here in Europe/Britain.
Another british bank, Bradford and Bingley fell on its` backside, and was "rescued by the state."
The Belgians have got Fortis financial service group, which is also collapsing and even the first London bankers suicides have been reported.
As the days and hours roll, the numbers talked are now called in billions, and even trillions... it looks set to fall apart, it`s nothing more than a printed promise to settle the tab, and the Asians (and the Russians) seem prepared to take a known and measured loss now, rather than a presumably even greater loss in time yet to come.
To be honest, it doesn`t appear possible, from whichever angle, that a debt so large can be paid by any sane means.
What the end result might be, would be speculation, and that`s where the whole mess began!
Change is coming, Enigma, but it may well be something of a magnitude unimagineable.
Lansker:
all the banks I mentioned above - you just mentioned....yes....I know there are repercussions..worldwide..and this depression is more than a recession...and that is already started...and yet the repugs here don't seem to acknowledge it...
I have felt it and felt it coming for years now..
thank you for being there...I hope you are okay..
Fran::
yeah- those are not mentioned at all- or McCoot
's GAMBLING problem either...
DK::
yeah....sherman did make good points-really...so did Kucinich...it's all a mess...and yeah, I did read about Fortis- and our Govt would be smart to read it too....
Daniel::
thanks I will add the link- I have 2 links to it above-but the more the better...
Daniel::
can you email me the link and I could put it in the post ? would you mind ? your link is great and goes right to it- thanks enigma4ever@earthlink.net
( and it is easier to read)
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